RonnieD wrote:You know, its a shame American slave owners and the Nazi's didn't sell great chicken sandwiches, otherwise they might still be around today as well!
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By the power invested in me by the internet, I hereby invoke Godwin's law.
RonnieD wrote:You know, its a shame American slave owners and the Nazi's didn't sell great chicken sandwiches, otherwise they might still be around today as well!
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Nora Boyle wrote:I don't think my 5 yr old fully understands the concept yet,
But he does know that we don't go there anymore because they don't like
our friends and family very much. That is really what it comes down to.
RonnieD
Foodie
1931
Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:09 pm
The rolling acres of Henry County
Charles W. wrote:RonnieD wrote:You know, its a shame American slave owners and the Nazi's didn't sell great chicken sandwiches, otherwise they might still be around today as well!
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By the power invested in me by the internet, I hereby invoke Godwin's law.
RonnieD wrote:Were this 1500 years ago we'd be comparing Hate-fil-A to the Visigoths and you'd be invoking Alaric's Law...
Robin Garr wrote:RonnieD wrote:Were this 1500 years ago we'd be comparing Hate-fil-A to the Visigoths and you'd be invoking Alaric's Law...
Jeff T wrote:So people on this forum are actually comparing the actions by a chain of restaurant to what happened during slavery and the Nazi occupation of Europe? Really?? 30 to 60 million Africans killed during the American slave trade and 11 million Jews and other ethnic Europeans killed by the Nazi's. If you don't like their opinions about homosexuals then dont do business with them but to compare their beliefs to 2 of the greatest tragedies in human history is beyond ridiculous.
Gary Z wrote:Jeff T wrote:So people on this forum are actually comparing the actions by a chain of restaurant to what happened during slavery and the Nazi occupation of Europe? Really?? 30 to 60 million Africans killed during the American slave trade and 11 million Jews and other ethnic Europeans killed by the Nazi's. If you don't like their opinions about homosexuals then dont do business with them but to compare their beliefs to 2 of the greatest tragedies in human history is beyond ridiculous.
Jeff, don't take it too seriously. No one is comparing the severity of Nazi crimes to some homophobic chicken joint. I think they were just trying to illustrate how far people compromise their values to justify their choices.
Maybe a better example would be:
You wouldn't eat a German restaurant that had a Nazi flag behind the bar would you? Of course not. So why frequent an establishment that is openly homophobic? Being proud of your beliefs means nothing if your beliefs suck.
Matthew D
Foodie
1347
Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:22 am
No Longer Old Louisville
Rob Coffey wrote:Gary Z wrote:Jeff T wrote:So people on this forum are actually comparing the actions by a chain of restaurant to what happened during slavery and the Nazi occupation of Europe? Really?? 30 to 60 million Africans killed during the American slave trade and 11 million Jews and other ethnic Europeans killed by the Nazi's. If you don't like their opinions about homosexuals then dont do business with them but to compare their beliefs to 2 of the greatest tragedies in human history is beyond ridiculous.
Jeff, don't take it too seriously. No one is comparing the severity of Nazi crimes to some homophobic chicken joint. I think they were just trying to illustrate how far people compromise their values to justify their choices.
Maybe a better example would be:
You wouldn't eat a German restaurant that had a Nazi flag behind the bar would you? Of course not. So why frequent an establishment that is openly homophobic? Being proud of your beliefs means nothing if your beliefs suck.
I dont think they are "openly" homophobic, at least not in that same way. I have never seen anything inside a chik-fil-a that suggests that dont serve to or hire gays, for example.
As I said above, I draw the line after profits are made. If you run your business in a fair and honest way, your profits are your business. I would bet that over 50% of restaurant owners in Louisville donate to causes I oppose. But unless it shows up in their business practices, I dont care.
Carla G wrote:Thank you Gary. I would also add that homosexuality is not a "belief" anymore than being Caucasian is a "belief". .
Matthew D wrote:
The idea of running a "business in a fair and honest way" depends completely on how we define what running a business is.
Chick-fil-A isn't stupid. They are not openly homophobic (in their actual in-restaurant practices) because they are no interested in entering into a legal battle regarding their business practices. By being "open and inclusive" in regards to restaurant operation, they are placing themselves firmly on the legal side of what can be slippery civil rights standards that vary from state to state. I'm thinking here specifically of California's Unruh Civil Rights Act.
So, Chick-fil-A finds itself on the legal side of the ledger and, given this standing, allows for the ridiculous argument you are forwarding - that the actions of a corporation can be divided pre and post profit.
Yet, these post-profit actions cannot be separated from the restaurant's status overall. While I don't think their support of anti-gay organizations is merely PR, it is, nonetheless, PR. These actions attract particular persons and align Chick-fil-A ideologically with specific political organizations, movements, and churches. The donation of this money forwards a certain worldview, a worldview that cannot exist merely post-profit. Instead, this worldview permeates throughout the business, even if the practices that occur within the business are not anti-gay.
I see your position as being linear in nature - pre-profit behavior separated from post-profit behavior. If we, instead, choose to see the relationship as being circular in nature, that the pre affects the post and vice versa, the comfortable (but unrealistic) separation of pre and post collapses - a collapse that better represents the company's actual practices and intentions.
So, to support Chick-fil-A based on a pre-and-post profit separation is to applaud them for what seem to be nefarious and cynical actions, namely the insincere production of an inclusive atmosphere that is, in fact, more a closely-crafted facade motivated by matters of legality and PR.
From this perspective, what corporations do with profits always matters (and matters more now that elections can be next-to bought). At the same time, I'm not going to assume what one company does or doesn't do with its profits. Yet it's, as I said earlier, living in a fantasy world for me to ignore publicly stated facts regarding how a company spends its profits. Furthermore, I'm not going to excuse one company's practices based on the argument that it should be assumed that many other companies I support use their profits in ways I would not agree. That is a fallacious argument.
Gary Z wrote:Actually I was referring to the Chik Fil A's beliefs, not the homosexuals'. You know... the ones Mark was proud that they were standing up for.
Mark R. wrote:I Waid I was proud that they stood behind their beliefs and broken with them. Not that I agree with them.
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