how to evaluate a college

We have been looking at colleges in Kentucky for my daughter. This would be a public, 4-year school. We've gone to WKU, Murray, U of L, and UK, and are also going to be looking at NKU and maybe EKU and possibly Berea. So, we've looked at the websites and gone to the college fairs and made unofficial campus visits (to the first four), but how do you figure out which college has the best program. For example, which one has the best psychology program, or the best art program? Obviously, you can't find that out from their information, because they'll all tell you they're great.
Any ideas for how to evaluate the quality of a certain college's program?

I'm a retired teacher, who for the last twenty years of my career chaired district services for the gifted and talented. I spent much time helping students find the right colleges for them, up to and including going on trips with them.

The first thing you want to do is meet with your daughter's HS counselor. One of the main job's of the HS counselor is to advise on college options. This is the person in the school who should be up on the latest college offerings and rankings. Next Google. Yes, you can look on the individual college/university web site, but look for their listings of national rankings, not their PR. You can also Google for national rankings in most fields. Of course field rankings aren't the only criteria, but it does give one a feel for the school's prowess in a given area.

From a parental perspective (and speaking as someone who has been there, done that...twice) don't ever lose sight of the fact that they are the ones attending the school. As a parent you may discover that school X has the best program in the world while school Y has a mediocre program but if your child is not happy with the overall feel of school X you will only end up pouring your hard earned money down a frog hole. I would also be very cautious selecting any school based upon the reputation of one program...I can't recall the precise statistic but nationally somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of students who attend a university never end up majoring in the program they originally intended to enroll in...to take it one step further something like 25% of those that do enter their program of choice, end up changing their major before graduation.

Everything that Steve said is true, however Ellen asked

. .. but how do you figure out which college has the best program. For example, which one has the best psychology program, or the best art program?

That should never be the main reason for choosing a college/university, because in addition to Steve's points, in most incidents students do not need to declare a major before the sophomore year and sometimes later. Furthermore, a great many students declared major ends up other than what he/she had assumed when matriculating.

We are definitely looking at the "feel" of the college first, taking our own "unofficial" tours of campus just to get a feel for the campus and surrounding town. I think it is most important that she's happy where she's going. We both just want to make sure that their program is good (she's actually the one who mentioned it), although from what I've read, most Kentucky colleges aren't way up there in rankings. But, if she was torn between, say, WKU and UK, the quality of the program could make the decision easier.
Thank you. I appreciate the input.
(P.S. This is more input than we've gotten from her school counselor, unfortunately).

God but this subject brought back a flood of memories...some good, some not so much. Daughter number two visited one medium sized state college, liked it, enrolled and graduated in four years. Daughter number one graduated H.S. with enough A.P. credits to cover about two years of college credits before she even walked in the door and was all over the country (literally) visiting campuses. Ultimately she turned down at least two offers that were very close to total free rides at very respected public universities and instead chose to go to a private college where such A.P. credits are generally not accepted. Despite some hefty scholarships from the private school, which somewhat offset the pain, I figure this decision cost her and I an extra 40 big.

Good luck to you Ellen.

although from what I've read, most Kentucky colleges aren't way up there in rankings.

I guess I look at it from the perspective that ALL of these schools are chock full of staff who are a helluva lot smarter than I am...as well a few staff members who might even be smarter than our children perceive themselves to be Honestly, I wouldn't get real caught up in that rankings thing...For example that annual (I think it is) Newsweek...or maybe it's U.S. News edition of college rankings isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Once you get past the obvious fact that Harvard has a high ranked business school, etc, etc it's all a bunch of subjective B.S. Oh, and scholarships...don't even get me started down that road.

Yeah, I'm definitely not looking forward to the whole scholarship, financial aid mess!

What's important to you and your child might not be to important to others. You mentioned Berea College and I'm happy to share why we picked Berea for my daughter. Sarah was a serious student and honestly wanted to make something of her education as opposed to just getting any degree to say she had a degree. A large portion of Berea students felt the same way. It's very hard academically to get into Berea so most of the student population take their time at school seriously. This made for plenty of opportunities for study group and help outside the classroom. Sure there were parties but no greeks and few distractions at all. Berea is a dry town so, while there will always be some alcohol somewhere, it isn't as prevalent as at other schools. Underclassmen cannot bring autos. I think you have to be a junior before you're allowed to have your own auto on campus. The town is just too small to accommodate a bunch of cars. (In short, there's little to do except study.) It's also so small it's easy to walk to anywhere on campus in just a few minutes. The campus is very safe. Away from Louisville but not so far I couldn't drive to Berea in a little over 1 1/2 hrs in case of an emergency.

At Berea my daughter met other students from all over the world. The exposure to people from Darfur, the Sudan, and other struggling nations help to give my daughter a perspective on life that I doubt she would have gotten at a typical college or university.(Desmond Tutu's daughter, Naomi, went to Berea) Berea did more than educate my daughter, it really helped to make her an adult. All the students work part time so they develop a strong work ethic early. Companies all over the world are aware of Berea's training this way and many seek out Berea grads for jobs right out of college. Even in these bad economic times Berea grads enjoy a higher 'out of school' hire rate. My daughter earned a Fulbright scholarship out of Berea so I know the education she received has been top notch. The student:teacher ratio is about one teacher for every 10 (often less) students.

There are what some may consider drawbacks to Berea. It is a very small town to for some it may just be too dull. There's little to no shopping. The school doesn't allow slacking of any kind so some students may find it too demanding and intrusive. (It's not uncommon for a Berea student if they miss a class to get a call asking "Where are you?") Still my daughter was able to travel to Paris for a semester to study French with most of it being paid for by the school. (I certainly couldn't afford it.)

I'll admit that my reaction when someone suggested Berea to us the first time was, "Berea? They make brooms and baskets." Well yeah they do, but that's only a very small aspect of the school. They also have very good academic programs in 28 different BA and BS fields. I was also a bit concerned about the emphasis on Christian ethics. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just that I wasn't looking for a religious school experience for her. Well it wasn't a religious school per se. What we found was a school that stressed 'Christ-like' behavior with a strong sense of diversity and inclusion. In fact after reading about the history of the school we felt that Berea was, in fact, exactly what my daughter was looking for. She loved Berea. In fact, she accumulated all her necessary credits 6 months early and was a bit miffed that they graduated her early. She would have rather stayed in school. She now lives in London, England, has her Masters in classical acting and spends some of her time working for the Fulbright Society tutoring other Fulbright hopefuls. What more could I ask for for her? So yeah I guess I sound like a walking ad for Berea but it sure was great for my kid. PM me if you have any questions.

As far as rankings for Berea, check out these links...

http://www.berea.edu/publicrelations/ne ... onthly.asp

http://www.richmondregister.com/localne ... 20634.html

http://www.studentsreview.com/KY/BAC_co ... %20College
(this site has reviews from students which you may find a bit more objective. It's also interesting to note what they DON'T like about the school.)

Ellen .. my knowledge of college is from 3 kids and 3 step kids, all graduates with three masters between them. I, along with the other parents just sent money.

Since you are restricting yourself to public Kentucky colleges, obviously you are considering the finances.
All of the above had the same restrictions

I believe the very first thing that the youngster and you have to consider is whether she wants to live at home or away. Of course at U of L you can go into a dorm. I had two that graduated from EKU and 4 from U of L, one of which started at WKU and basically got homesick and finished at U of L. Three have masters degrees.

All received good educations. However, for example, a choice between WKU and U of K should be, I believe U of K. Since it is the state school, it is more easily recognized both in Kentucky and elsewhere. That's not knocking any of the other schools. However, of the above six kids the graduate of EKU is the highest paid of the bunch. Also the lowest paid is a EKU graduate (a teacher).

Berea that you mentioned, is a very unusual and interesting school. Caters mainly to eastern Kentucky kids. Usually no tuition although every student WILL have a job. Before going, check the website. Could be a great choice depending on the student and if you can get in.

Thanks for the Berea info.
And congratulations on your daughter!

One thing you may want to check is ratemyprofessors.com. It sounds strange, but you'll get a good feel if the students think they are getting a good education or the program is a joke. Even if a professor has a bad rating, read the reviews...it may be that they are truly bad or they may just make their students work a lot.

I personally preferred a medium sized school (8k students)... I spent 9 years on 3 degrees, 5 programs at 3 schools and found the professors at the medium sized school were just as intelligent and articulate as the ones at the big state school, but they actually remembered my name and built a relationship with students. The focus seemed to be more on teaching than on the professor's research or new book.

Find her a school were she will be happy...even if the program isn't top rated in the US News College Guide (that ranking is based on $$$, not always quality btw), if she likes where she is, she'll get more from it and do well with it.

If you have the chance, go sit around campus during the day when classes are in session...see how friendly the students are...hit the student center/cafeteria...you'll find out about all the things going on at campus and get a good feel for the school community..and definitely check out the programs building, a lot of info will only be posted in that area about the program, what they have going on, special programs and guest speakers.

Ellen...

Lots of very informative posts have preceded mine, so I'll make a concerted effort not to be reptitive. I don't have children, so I can only speak about my own college experiences. When I was exploring colleges, I presumed I would remain in this region, so my search was restricted in that regard (if I had it to do again, probably not -- but my parents didn't attend college, and frankly my guidance counselors offered little practical help, so I was largely left on my own in selecting a school).

I ended up attending UofL, mostly for practical reasons -- i.e., I had good HS grades, but not good enough for a substantial academic scholarship, and getting a loan was OUT of the question...so, I worked P/T while attending class F/T and remained at home to save expenses...BUT UofL also has a law school (which was my career goal) so I knew they had a pre-law program in place, and that WAS another factor.

My perspective about college is that while the physical resources among individual schools may vary, generally, the quality of education that one derives is dependent upon a student's own ambition and initiative...I would submit that a student can probably obtain a comparable education at UofL as can be earned at an Ivy, if sufficiently motivated. I know people who have graduated from Ivy League schools and basically, they tell me that the toughest part is the admission process -- after that, there isn't a significant amount of difference in the educational experience -- it boils down to how much a student seeks to get out of it.

Many schools do offer superior programs in various disciplines, so if your daughter has a good feel for what major she wants to declare -- or even a career goal -- that may help decide. Good luck!!

I hope you'll think about class size.

Unfortunately, the bachelors degree has become the new high school diploma, and if your daughter thinks that she will consider graduate school then she wants to do her undergrad in a place that she will be able to establish strong relationships with her professors and advisers. Even a strong student can get lost in such a new environment and relationships, in my opinion, are the key to success.

I'm not a parent, just a current student.