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David Clancy

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Speeding tickets VS Mechanical violations??

by David Clancy » Sat May 05, 2007 6:29 pm

Just curious if anyone else has had this happen to them and what they think of it. Got a 72mph in a 55 zone and when I got to court a lawer approached me and said for $50 bucks he can reduce it to a "mechanical" violation. I didn't have the cash and he said he would trade for a gift certificate. Sounded like a good deal so I did it, but then I got to thinking about corruption in the legal system and how this may be a prime example of that. Ron, if your out there, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter. So, if I run someone over with my car, I guess I just get a speeding ticket?? The whole thing just left me scratching my head as I was guilty and willing to pay for racing to work......
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Marsha White

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Been there, Dave....

by Marsha White » Sun May 06, 2007 9:25 pm

Hey, Dave!

Embarrassed as I am to admit it, I got my first ticket ever last September. I was late to work, and was doing 45 through what is normally a 35 zone. I don't have kids, and I forgot that I was driving near a school shortly after JCPS were back in session, so the speed was reduced to 25 MpH.

Speeding through a school zone is a major no-no, as I found out. My fine was higher than it would've been had I zipped through another area of town, and I was looking at six points being added to my driving record for five years.

The policeman said I had to go to court, so off I went. As it happens, an acquaintance of mine, attorney Murray Porath, was there that night and was able to help me. Since we know each other, he didn't charge me--normally he charges fifty bucks--and pled it down to "defective equipment". That meant no points to my record, which was my major concern--lots of points on your driving record (and six is lots) means increases in your auto insurance costs for the next several years. I paid the fine ($250 with fine and court coses) and was good to go.

There were several attorneys in the courthouse lobby that night, hiring themselves out to folks like me who had to go to traffic court. Murray and I aren't close friends, but we know each other fairly well due to common hobbies, and he has a rep amongst folks I know for being an upstanding kind of a guy. I can't imagine Murray would have offered that service to me if it was something corrupt.

Now the barter offer of legal services in exchange for a gift certificate I can't speak to. Presumably he wanted one to Bistro New Albany? I don't know anything about legal ethics, but it doesn't strike me as wrong. Perhaps an attorney here can speak to that.
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TP Lowe

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Re: Been there, Dave....

by TP Lowe » Sun May 06, 2007 10:22 pm

Marsha White wrote: I can't imagine Murray would have offered that service to me if it was something corrupt.

Now the barter offer of legal services in exchange for a gift certificate I can't speak to. Presumably he wanted one to Bistro New Albany? I don't know anything about legal ethics, but it doesn't strike me as wrong. Perhaps an attorney here can speak to that.


Where to start .... how could a situation such as this be anything but questionable? Bartering a gift certificate "based on what he wants" rather than facts? To exchange a fixed fee for a representation regardless of the merits of the case? Seems a bit unseemingly, to me. I'm not an attorney, though...
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Ron Johnson

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by Ron Johnson » Mon May 07, 2007 8:04 am

David:

As an attorney I am disgusted by this. It is a complete ethical violation for an attorney to directly approach a person and solicit business. It is equally unethical for an attorney to "guarantee" some type of outcome or base his fee on some type of guaranteed result. This really makes me sick. I sometimes appear in nigh traffic court for friends, and everytime I am there I see these scumbag attornyes prowling the hallways of the courthouse to offer "advice" to people and then set upon them with this kind of sales pitch. If they are being particularly offensive, I will approach the same people and offer to do their case for free in order to deprive these leeches of their $50.

As for the possibility of amendment of the speeding violation to a lesser violation such as defective equipment, the answer is yes it can be done and it does happen, but there is often a good reason for it. The criminal justice system is largely based upon plea bargains. If every single case went to trial, especially every traffic case, the system would shut down. There are probably more than 500 traffic cases handled everyday in Jefferson County alone. Can you imagine the backlog that would develop if every one of those speeding cases went to a full jury trial? It would be a disaster. So, the way this is handled is to accept guilty pleas from the defendant in order to more quickly dispose of the case. In order to persuade a person to plead guilty it is often necessary to offer them a slightly reduced charge. This is very common, completely ethical, and happens everyday in cases from speeding tickets to murder. For example, someone charged with assault II may be allowed to plead guilty to the lesser charge of assault IV, especially if there are mitigating factors present like self-defense.
The judges realize that not every speeding ticket case is perfect. Sometimes police make mistakes. Allowing someone who is going 15 mph over the limit to plead guilty to a lesser charge like defective equipment is a compromise. The state still recovers the court costs, the guilty party still pays a hefty fine, but he or she avoids having their insurance rates go up. It's a win-win for everyone. However, the prosecutors will not agree to this plea bargain if someone is speeding excessively, were intoxicated, driving recklessly, etc.

As for if you run someone over in your car; the charges there would depend on a lot of factors. Your outcome could range from no charge at all to being charged with murder.

As an attorney, I am very sorry that you were approached by a lawyer who directly solicited business from you in such a manner. In the future if an attorney ever approaches anyone here like this, please take his or her card and bring this conduct to the attention of the presiding judge or the bar association.
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Marsha White

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by Marsha White » Mon May 07, 2007 11:32 pm

Ron Johnson wrote: As an attorney I am disgusted by this. It is a complete ethical violation for an attorney to directly approach a person and solicit business.


I have to ask about this. How is that any less ethical than an attorney advertising his services on TV, billboards, and so forth?
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by TP Lowe » Tue May 08, 2007 2:00 pm

Marsha White wrote:
Ron Johnson wrote: As an attorney I am disgusted by this. It is a complete ethical violation for an attorney to directly approach a person and solicit business.


I have to ask about this. How is that any less ethical than an attorney advertising his services on TV, billboards, and so forth?


I'm not proposing to answer for Ron, but a broader, non-specific advertisement is much less offensive than a direct approach to a prospective client. It's the difference between a Honda ad on TV and a salesperson knocking on your door because they know you are in the market for a Honda, even though you didn't tell them.
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Ron Johnson

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by Ron Johnson » Tue May 08, 2007 3:30 pm

Marsha White wrote:
Ron Johnson wrote: As an attorney I am disgusted by this. It is a complete ethical violation for an attorney to directly approach a person and solicit business.


I have to ask about this. How is that any less ethical than an attorney advertising his services on TV, billboards, and so forth?


AT the outset let me say that I am opposed to all forms of attorney advertising, but there is a difference. As TP said, in person is much more pressure, and it especially if it occurs at the courthouse when the person is scared, worried and not sure what to do. These people are very vulnerable and should not be prayed upon by attorneys. Advertising at least gives the person the option of calling or not calling from the comfort of their own home.

Those who advocate lawyer advertising say that lots of people don't have a lawyer in the family or living next door. For those people advertisements are a good way for them to find a lawyer. Also, we see more and more advertisements from doctors so why shouldn't lawyers be able to? I know I see at least a dozen ads for Jewish Hospital everytime I watch a UL game.
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by Leah S » Tue May 08, 2007 4:43 pm

All I can say is, I wish I had thought of getting an attorney for my last speeding ticket. I paid the fine and took the 6 points. Damn.
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John R.

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by John R. » Tue May 08, 2007 4:57 pm

Ron Johnson wrote:David:

As an attorney


I read that far and was expecting a little Oscar Acosta advice.
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by Steve Shade » Wed May 09, 2007 4:33 am

John R. wrote:
Ron Johnson wrote:David:

As an attorney


I read that far and was expecting a little Oscar Acosta advice.


I have no idea what you are talking about. The tone seems like an insult, but certainly not sure. Would appreciate expanding on your statement.

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