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robert szappanos

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by robert szappanos » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:44 pm

Anybody watching the comedy show on CNN...called the Democratic Debate...What a bunch of losers...except it looks as if Dennis is the only one answering the question and not beating around the bush...It is clear that Hillaries favortie shoes are Flip Flops based on her performance in the last debate and this one so far....Maybe Dennis is the man..... :D :D :D
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by Aaron Newton » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:47 pm

Steve Magruder wrote:
I understand your position, but I don't agree with it in terms of applying to all cases, as I have noted. There are some things in this country that need to be fought against tooth and nail, no holds barred. I am a liberal (pretty much), but I don't hold to the traditional limp-wristed, let-them-shit-all-over-us-let's-just-get-along approach to the narrow band of reich-wingers spreading absolute bullshit about history, groups and various issues.

And what I called a lie/smear is absolutely that.


Likewise I understand your position that there are things worth fighting for tooth and nail, no holds barred. I just don't agree that slinging insults at people who don't know something you do accomplishes anything positive. When you fight that way, you aren't fighting to win. You're fighting to make yourself look better, and your enemies worse.

Winning comes by convincing those you disagree with that you are correct.

I guess I'll try to remember, also, that you think being mistaken is akin to lying.
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C. Devlin

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by C. Devlin » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:58 pm

robert szappanos wrote:Anybody watching the comedy show on CNN...called the Democratic Debate...What a bunch of losers...except it looks as if Dennis is the only one answering the question and not beating around the bush...It is clear that Hillaries favortie shoes are Flip Flops based on her performance in the last debate and this one so far....Maybe Dennis is the man..... :D :D :D


Well, although I said our public officials are open for criticism, I'd wish for more tempered and reasoned criticism. Lobbing words such as "losers" and the like doesn't move me much. Discussing the actual issues, on the other hand, makes me hot. 8)
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by robert szappanos » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:20 am

That is the problem...They dont discuss the issues....except for dennis...they never answer the question...just talk for a few minutes and at the end you wonder...what did they say...at least when they asked him questions he gave an answer and stuck to the question that was asked of him...although I must admit that Joe Biden seemed to do good....and has been around the block a few times in washington...
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by C. Devlin » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:24 am

robert szappanos wrote:That is the problem...They dont discuss the issues....except for dennis...they never answer the question...just talk for a few minutes and at the end you wonder...what did they say...at least when they asked him questions he gave an answer and stuck to the question that was asked of him...although I must admit that Joe Biden seemed to do good....and has been around the block a few times in washington...


I always like Biden, even though I don't think he's precisely president material. But frankly I think candidates from any persuasion end up sounding canned and a little lame in these televised mass debates. It's one thing to have one candidate pitted against another single candidate, and another thing altogether to have a passel of em up there with some moderator asking a question and then clicking a stop watch so they don't go past the alloted 30 seconds or whatever. And how really do you guage a candidate's capabilities or position on an issue when the moderator says, "Please answer only yes or no"? Of course none of them answered simply yes or no, but it's got to be a nightmarish situation for them to make any sort of nuanced argument in an event such as this.
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by robert szappanos » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:26 pm

By the way Robin You said you were in the USAF...What was your AFSC?

Ron still waiting for your reply..
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Ron Johnson

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by Ron Johnson » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:48 pm

robert szappanos wrote:
Ron still waiting for your reply..


sorry Robert, I must've missed your question. What did you want to know?
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by David Clancy » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm

robert szappanos wrote:Thanks for the info Robin...But I am still waiting for Ron...also david good to see you back...For a person that said I am not posting anymore after your place closed and continued to make smart remarks and jabs about me...You sure have posted alot...It is an addiction I know....
Hmmm........First, I made no "jabs" or "smart remarks" towards you Robert (do find one and I will gladly appologize). Second, I lost my WIFI at my restaurant and was not sure that I would be back on the net anytime soon. Thankfully, I am, once again, connected and get to enjoy your spirited and thoughtfull posts.
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by David Clancy » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:13 pm

David Clancy wrote:
robert szappanos wrote:Thanks for the info Robin...But I am still waiting for Ron...also david good to see you back...For a person that said I am not posting anymore after your place closed and continued to make smart remarks and jabs about me...You sure have posted alot...It is an addiction I know....
Hmmm........First, I made no "jabs" or "smart remarks" towards you Robert (do find one and I will gladly appologize). Second, I lost my WIFI at my restaurant and was not sure that I would be back on the net anytime soon. Thankfully, I am, once again, connected and get to enjoy your spirited and thoughtfull posts.
Oh, and to quote myself "This will probably be my last post for some time as I am losing my WIFI"). "Some time" is not forever Robert..........sorry!
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by C. Devlin » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:34 pm

Bedford Crenshaw wrote:Regardless on whether or not we "torture", the enemies of the USA DO torture, and no about of liberal hangwringing will change that; the handwringing can only help encourage our enemies to torture us, while our hands are tied.

Whatever it takes to keep the USA safe, is what we should do.


I think John McCain's position is as good a response to this as any:

McCain finds sympathy on torture issue
Voters captivated by his discussion of issue, although they may disagree


On a bitterly cold morning last week, diners at the Whistle Stop Cafe in Boone, Iowa, were just sitting down for their morning coffee when Senator John McCain entered. Within minutes, Mr. McCain turned to a hot-button topic for which he literally serves as the living embodiment: the subject of torture.

“One of the things that kept us going when I was in prison in North Vietnam was that we knew that if the situation were reversed, that we would not be doing to our captors what they were doing to us,” he said.

When Mr. McCain brings up the issue of torture, he is often met by a complex response. Many of the Republican voters he courts do not agree with his opposition to aggressive interrogation techniques that many have condemned as torture. But they are often captivated by his discussion of the issue, in some cases even moved to tears, as was the case in Boone.

On the campaign trail, Mr. McCain does not dwell on the personal details of his five and a half years as a prisoner of war, the “torture ropes” in which he was bound day and night, or the beatings he endured. But as he speaks, the physical reminders of his wounds are there for all to see, from the stiffness of his arms, which to this day he can only painfully raise above his head, to the shortness of his stride, a result of injury and subsequent beatings.

Mr. McCain has been speaking out more forcefully about the issue as it has bubbled up recently on the campaign trail and in debates.

Democrats are largely opposed to torture, and while the Bush administration has said it does not engage in torture, it had previously reserved the right to use aggressive interrogation techniques in questioning terrorism suspects. And the leading Republican candidates, with the exception of Mr. McCain, are refusing to rule out certain techniques that others would deem as torture.

“I want to tell you. Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson and Mitt Romney all think it is O.K.,” Mr. McCain told the diners in Boone. “They have one thing in common. They don’t understand the military and the culture of this nation. If they did, they could never condone such behavior.”

The issue has taken on particular resonance over the last few weeks as lawmakers argued over the nomination of Michael B. Mukasey for attorney general, with Democrats angered over his refusal to call waterboarding torture and therefore illegal. And it has led to some of the most pointed exchanges of the Republican campaign so far. When Mr. McCain faulted his Republican opponents’ lack of wartime experience, Mr. Giuliani shot back against his old political ally, Mr. McCain, saying he “has never run a city, never run a state, never run a government.”

From public forums in Iowa to the living rooms of New Hampshire and the military towns in South Carolina, Mr. McCain’s message is simple: what America does to its enemies defines America itself.

Sometimes, he does not even have to say anything himself, leaving the task to those who introduce him.

At a Veterans Day ceremony at Beaufort National Cemetery in South Carolina, Mayor William Rauch of Beaufort introduced Mr. McCain by recalling how as a prisoner, Mr. McCain had once refused to be filmed for propaganda purposes, “uplifting his center finger” when the guard entered his cell and uttering “the oath that is commonly associated with that gesture.”

The act of defiance, Mr. Rauch said, led to another month or so of beatings.

At many events, the campaign often shows grainy black-and-white film of a young Mr. McCain soon after his capture in North Vietnam, obviously in pain and confined to a bed, telling his captors his name and rank as he smokes a cigarette.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, will often point to Mr. McCain’s opposition to torture to support her own stance. All of the leading Democratic candidates have made it clear that if the Republican nominee is not Mr. McCain, they will make torture a subject of any general election campaign.

While Mr. McCain refrains from discussing his own experiences, he lets others address the issue. At a celebration Saturday of the 232nd birthday of the Marine Corps, in Bedford, N.H., as veterans from five wars over the last century looked on, Mr. McCain said that any candidate who joked about sleep deprivation, as Mr. Giuliani had done several days earlier, should talk to his fellow prisoner of war and supporter, Orson G. Swindle.

Mr. McCain described how Mr. Swindle was “chained to a stool for 10 days, then let off that stool for one day, and then chained to that stool again for 10 more days.”

Mr. McCain believes that the United States’ war on terrorism has been defined for much of the world by its failure to forthrightly reject torture, as well as its continuing the practice of rendition, in which terrorism suspects are spirited off to countries that may engage in torture, and the continued detention of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, without trials. He portrays his Republican opponents’ position on the torture issue as reflective of “macho” or “tough-guy” poses.

After a public forum at a restaurant in Allison, Iowa, where he once again took on his Republican opponents by name, Mr. McCain told reporters that, because of his efforts in the Senate, he was confident that the United States was no longer engaging in cruel and inhumane treatment.

“After we passed the Detainee Treatment Act, the Military Commissions Act, then obviously anybody who violated any law of the United States would have to be held responsible,” he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21831411/
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robert szappanos

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by robert szappanos » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:31 pm

dave lets have a clean slate...What I meant was my first post back you made a comment that you were going out of bussiness and that you...Robert should be glad that another independant place has gone out of bussiness....or something to that point...I am never glad when any place closes....Chain or Local...As I have said in the past I go to both...unlike other people that do not....I hope that you have found a new place....and that is not meant to be a smart remark...I mean it.. :D :D :D :D
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by robert szappanos » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:34 pm

Ron the question was where you ever in the military. :D
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by Ron Johnson » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:47 pm

robert szappanos wrote:Ron the question was where you ever in the military. :D

no.
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by David Clancy » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:54 pm

robert szappanos wrote:dave lets have a clean slate...What I meant was my first post back you made a comment that you were going out of bussiness and that you...Robert should be glad that another independant place has gone out of bussiness....or something to that point...I am never glad when any place closes....Chain or Local...As I have said in the past I go to both...unlike other people that do not....I hope that you have found a new place....and that is not meant to be a smart remark...I mean it.. :D :D :D :D
No harm/ no foul Robert. Clearly a misunderstanding. For the record, I do go to chains (some actually don't suck) and while I lost my business, I do not blame it on chains for the most part (there was much more to it than that). I am honestly glad that you are back on the forum as a strictly one-sided forum would be far less interesting and I would probably not post as often. I respect all points of view and feel that I learn more about human nature each time I log on here. Perhaps it is an addiction (and I have entertained many in my years) but this a healthy one for sure..........
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Roger A. Baylor

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by Roger A. Baylor » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:42 pm

Bedford Crenshaw wrote:
Whatever it takes to keep the USA safe, is what we should do.


That's scarier than anything a terrorist might do, because it is open ended.

Do we nuke first?

Do we commit the same crimes as the "enemy" because we're right and they're wrong?

Where does it end, Bedford?
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