Off-topic discussions about regional news, issues and politics. Pretty much everything goes here, but keep it polite: Flaming and spamming aren't welcome.
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Robin Garr

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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Robin Garr » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:35 pm

Steve P wrote:Being open about something wrong, doesn't make it right. Does it ?

I'm wrestling with the "wrongness" of it, Steve. Laid out in the open it looks dubious, but when you think about it, it's inherent in the nature of coupons. Gift cards, too. I don't know about you, but I've got a stack of gift cards over here that hit their one-year expiration date before I got around to using them, and the vendor promptly ate the money that my donor paid. Do I like it? Not particularly. But it's the way business works, it's legal, and spelling it out in an open sales pitch is arguably preferable to hiding it behind a curtain. I don't like it much myself, but then, I don't buy coupons. It certainly doesn't make me throw up a little the way it apparently does you.

But all that's beside the point: I really don't want to see us attacking a new forum member the way John Robert got attacked here. Or, for that matter, the way Math Whiz attacked you.
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Brian Curl » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:43 pm

Man, all I said was Steve got in trouble na na na boo boo stick your head in doo doo :lol:

That was just being funny, hardly an attack. . .
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Steve P » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
Steve P wrote:Being open about something wrong, doesn't make it right. Does it ?

I'm wrestling with the "wrongness" of it, Steve. Laid out in the open it looks dubious, but when you think about it, it's inherent in the nature of coupons. Gift cards, too. I don't know about you, but I've got a stack of gift cards over here that hit their one-year expiration date before I got around to using them, and the vendor promptly ate the money that my donor paid. Do I like it? Not particularly. But it's the way business works, it's legal, and spelling it out in an open sales pitch is arguably preferable to hiding it behind a curtain. I don't like it much myself, but then, I don't buy coupons. It certainly doesn't make me throw up a little the way it apparently does you.

But all that's beside the point: I really don't want to see us attacking a new forum member the way John Robert got attacked here. Or, for that matter, the way Math Whiz attacked you.


Dude,

Yes, laid out in the open it does look fairly dubious...and personally, I think it is. I realize this type of marketing has gone on for years...and yes (I assume) it's legal but using a worn out expression, two wrongs don't make a right. I am (as you well know) a person of principle...God knows I have lived AND died on that particular hill many-many times. AS a person of principle, I could not stand back and let this one ride. I don't think it's right...I think it's wrong and I don't mind telling people.

As for the "personal attack"...In poor taste perhaps but (in my case) certainly within the rules of the bar, that being that you only say something online that you would say to someone's face. I would have said the same thing to the O.P.s face. My apologies to those who faint at my infraction of not following the 6 or 7 or however the hell many rules there are of being manly.
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Robin Garr » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:55 pm

Steve P wrote:I realize this type of marketing has gone on for years...and yes (I assume) it's legal but using a worn out expression, two wrongs don't make a right. I am (as you well know) a person of principle...God knows I have lived AND died on that particular hill many-many times. AS a person of principle, I could not stand back and let this one ride. I don't think it's right...I think it's wrong and I don't mind telling people.

Any reason why you never complained about the Groupon ads that Google AdSense frequently serves in the banner ads on the forum pages? Just curious ... :mrgreen:
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Steve P » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:09 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
Steve P wrote:Any reason why you never complained about the Groupon ads that Google AdSense frequently serves in the banner ads on the forum pages? Just curious ... :mrgreen:


Got an email address ?...I'll light their candle too 8) :lol:

Seriously though...I DID buy several Restaurant dot com certificates at one point...and once I realized (surprise !!) that I did'nt use 33% of the coupons I bought, I vowed never to go down that path again. As it stands, I don't do "Groupon", I don't do "Originals" and I won't do this one.

...Now, if you will excuse my I must take my obligatory 1.5 hour afternoon nap in preparation for the cocktail hour.

Peace and Love...Sorry I crapped on your forum...again.
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by JustinHammond » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:10 pm

I'd bet the salad in a bag people know that only X% of their product is going to make it to the plate. I’d also bet they let the grocery stores know those stats during their sales presentation. Do I hold it against them? Nope, it is simply part of life. If there were a label on the bag, claiming only 60% of people eat the lettuce before it turns into green slime, I'd have no problems with that. Nobody uses all of everything they buy. Seems pretty common that would be the case on anything with an expiration date.

I just found a gift card to Comedy Caravan and Heritage Hills Golf course in a Christmas card from 2 years ago. I don't know if they are expired or not, but I certainly won't hold it against any of the companies involved. It was 100% MY FAULT that the certificates (and salad) haven't been used.
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Brian Curl » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:39 pm

I agree, if you spend $20 and do plan and go to get your $40 worth of food, it's your fault for basically wasting money and not managing your personal business. I think it's a great deal, I didn't buy one. I was singed up to Groupon, Living Social, Try it Local, all of them. I started getting so much email from them that I wasn't interested in I labeled all of them spam. I usually check my spam once a day, but it sure doesn't get priority.
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Steve P » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:40 pm

JustinHammond wrote: It was 100% MY FAULT that the certificates (and salad) haven't been used.



Yep...your the consumer. It's 100% your fault. Other examples where it is 100% the consumers fault might include selling worthless insurance policies to the elderly, Oh...and Time Shares. Yep, 100% the consumers fault there. Let's see...and how many 1000's of people have had their credit "repaired". Again, 100% their fault. My favorite though has always been selling the American dream of home ownership to millions of people through various mortgage "products"...No one ripped off there (and 100% their dumbass fault if they were).

So do I resent those things ? Nahhhhhh, why would I...it is (after all) 100% their fault (Isn't it ?). Nahhhhh, what I REALLY resent is someone coming on here and making a sales pitch with the support-your-local-whatever spin or hook to it...to people, many of whom I consider my friends (yourself included)...when in my humble-backwater-opinion it is nothing more than a freaking money making scheme. Chamber of Commerce my ass...If these people were REALLY concerned about promoting "local" they would do it on a not-for-profit basis where 33% of the purchasers don't find themselves 100% screwed.

I must nap now...The cocktail hour approaches.
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Brian Taylor Clark » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:45 pm

All theory and statistics aside, isn't the bigger picture that someone joined the forum solely to spam and peddle things, even worse posting it in multiple forums at once? Not even a couple posts to start out with that provide insight or review anything on this forum. This forum lives and dies by people posting critiques, reviews and general restaurant info, not spam. I see a lot of good ad space sitting around this forum screen that Robin has to use in order to keep this forum going, if you want to advertise to us, and provide us with nothing else, PAY FOR IT!
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Robin Garr

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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Robin Garr » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:53 pm

Brian Taylor Clark wrote:All theory and statistics aside, isn't the bigger picture that someone joined the forum solely to spam and peddle things, even worse posting it in multiple forums at once?

In fairness, the gentleman approached me before registering on the forum and indicated that he planned to promote a coupon program for GLI. This seemed like a reasonable request, so I told him it was okay. I have suggested, as you can see in my original response, that he keep the posts in a single topic in this forum.

And of course I hope he gets involved with us as a contributing forumite as well. Good point.
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by JustinHammond » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:00 pm

Steve P wrote:
JustinHammond wrote: It was 100% MY FAULT that the certificates (and salad) haven't been used.



Nahhhhh, what I REALLY resent is someone coming on here and making a sales pitch with the support-your-local-whatever spin or hook to it...to people, many of whom I consider my friends (yourself included)...when in my humble-backwater-opinion it is nothing more than a freaking money making scheme. Chamber of Commerce my ass...If these people were REALLY concerned about promoting "local" they would do it on a not-for-profit basis where 33% of the purchasers don't find themselves 100% screwed.

I must nap now...The cocktail hour approaches.


I’m not touching the issue of people borrowing more than they should; we apparently have very different opinions on that one.

On to the coupons.

The only way people (consumers) can get screwed is by not using the certificate before the expiration. I didn't buy the coupon, but it was a very good deal. $20 for $40 worth of food and booze sounds pretty good to me. I think it was pretty clear GLI was taking a cut. If you are opposed to GLI taking a cut from a local, that is, "like your opinion man", but you make it seem like a scam on consumers, which I don't. It is somewhat disheartening that the Chamber charges businesses to be members and takes a cut on these coupons, but they didn't hide those facts. Money keeps this rock spinning.

You have worked hard today; I think you deserve at least 3 hours of cocktails. We'll be at Coal's around 4:00 if you want to buy me a beer. :wink:
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Steve P » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:12 pm

JustinHammond wrote:The only way people (consumers) can get screwed is by not using the certificate before the expiration. I didn't buy the coupon, but it was a very good deal. $20 for $40 worth of food and booze sounds pretty good to me. I think it was pretty clear GLI was taking a cut. If you are opposed to GLI taking a cut from a local, that is, "like your opinion man", but you make it seem like a scam on consumers, which I don't. It is somewhat disheartening that the Chamber charges businesses to be members and takes a cut on these coupons, but they didn't hide those facts. Money keeps this rock spinning.


We shall politely agree to disagree. Make it so numbah one.

JustinHammond wrote:You have worked hard today; I think you deserve at least 3 hours of cocktails. We'll be at Coal's around 4:00 if you want to buy me a beer. :wink:


:? ...No can do Keemosabi...Working on some recipes tonight for a cooking class. Thanks for the invite though, I'm always looking for an opportunities to buy you a beer. :wink:
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Steve P » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:07 pm

Robin Garr wrote:Actually, Groupon and every other coupon deal in the world operates on this premise. It's how they make the numbers work. Ugly, but true. John Robert was open about it. <shrug>

Here man, have a beer ...


It's almost quittin' time (yaba-daba-doooo) but I'll take one final stab at clarifying my position...That being that Groupon, Originals, This little deal...whatever the hell it's it's called, are all nothing more than parasitic middle-man marketing programs that are sold to local consumers and businesses under the guise of <wink> a vehicle to introduce new customers to (in this case) a local restaurant...In reality these programs are doing little more than sucking away profit from the restaurant and (in the case of those individuals who stick the coupon in last years Christmas card) dollars from consumer pockets....You can hide the hook in the worm if you want to but I still say it ain't fishin...it's snaggin'.

Groupon ? I'm personal friends with one restaurant G.M. who on the day ended he ended his "relationship" with Groupon curled up with the better part of a bottle of Old Forester in celebration. Originals ? I can turn you on to 2 or 3 restuarantuers who will become quite animated in describing how much THAT program cost them...and I've seen nothing concerning this new "deal" that would cause me to believe it's anything more than the same old sex, just a different position.

It would appear to now be the Cocktail hour...
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by Chris M » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:13 pm

My issue with this offer is that he states they count on a percent of purchasers never using the coupons, and then "accidentally" put a wrong expiration date in the e-mail they sent out with the offer that is a full year longer than the actual deal.

Also, if you look at the e-mail, the expiration date there is in a larger font than the rest of the e-mail and is in bold type. On the web page where you purchase the offer the correct, and MUCH sooner expiration date was listed in small font without the bold type.

Throw in that the amount was so high that it would likely require 4 people to fully utilize plus restrictions on days it can be used and it just all rubs me the wrong way. They claim the expiration date to be a typo, but I don't know if i buy that. And why throw GLI into the mix? Nobody else needs a Chamber tie in to seem legit? If they are pushing all this "keep the money local thing" then which "local" market is tryitlocal in? They offer deals in a lot of places. They can't be "local" to all of them. Since they keep a good chunk of the money, aren't you in fact NOT supporting a local business? Wouldn't it be more local to spend the entire $40 at a local business all by yourself?

At least the other coupon deals are very straight forward about their terms and offer amounts appropriate for 2 diners. I've never seen the restrictions or such a short use window on a Groupon offer. I promise you many people will eat those coupons, and other will walk out unable to spend the full amount. They pretty much state they are counting on those things happening.

I refrained from using this word in the other forum, but shady keeps coming to mind. I'm a little disappointed in A.P. for letting his establishment participate. Might have to rethink how often I give his places my business (which is a lot right now).
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Re: Louisville Chamber of Commerce - Try It Local

by John Robert Harris » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:16 pm

The post was more so for the restaurant owner to see and decide whether or not they would like to be featured on the daily deal.

It is no one's fault but the consumer for not using the coupon. However that # is something a restaurant owner will like to see, for multiple reasons.

In all honesty, I posted here to gain momentum against the competitors which do take the profits out of state. No matter how these deals work or not, we are geared to help the business more so than our competition. Louisville is a great place and more than ever we should be focused on local goods and services.


---Let us all keep in mind that the restrictions ARE SET BY THE COMPANY not us.
As seen here... http://www.tryitlocal.com/submit-your-deal
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