The Chick-Fil-A/Libertarian/Gay Marriage thread ;)

My last post was emotional which was against the rules Brian Curl established. Seems he likes logical support. <Must be a white, privileged male.>

So, here you go:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/187138/20110726/recession-housing-unemployment-income-wealth-gap-racial-black-hispanics.htm

That's yesterday's news. As in the day before today. Current. Real. Fact.

I read an article this morning where Al Sharpton referred this study. I'd bet, though, if you exclude the top 1% of the population who have made out like bandits over the past 40 years or so, the plight of white families would be similar to that of blacks and Hispanics.

That being said, Chick fil A's spicy chicken sandwich is awesome.

My last post was emotional which was against the rules Brian Curl established. Seems he likes logical support. <Must be a white, privileged male.>

So, here you go:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/187138/20110726/recession-housing-unemployment-income-wealth-gap-racial-black-hispanics.htm

That's yesterday's news. As in the day before today. Current. Real. Fact.

Is it white male privilege? Or an indictment of 50 years of Affirmative Action, Welfare, AFDC, Great Society, Urban Renewal, and other Big Government programs?

One definition of insanity is "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

[Robin Garr]

[Your confusion might be lessened if you researched the difference between social conservatives and libertarians.

Hold on - there are conservative libertarians and liberal libertarians, and they are no more alike than conservative authoritarians and liberal authoritarians. Conservative libertarians - the Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman school - are basically conservatives who want to watch porn and smoke dope.

Try this simple quiz. It's no more rigorously scientific than any other short online quiz, but it does make you think.

http://www.politicalcompass.org

[Robin Garr]

You are right. The knife does cut both ways. It has also been said that one should "Measure twice, and cut once". There's also the whole "beam" vs. "mote thing. I take that as instruction to be humble.

Noted. Still, help me out here: Are you saying there's moral equivalency on both sides of Jim Crow?

To those of you replaying to the study I linked to. You can spin the numbers however you want. Cut out certain populations. Figure out who to blame. Do whatever you want with them. You say tomato. I say not tomato. Reminds me of a title of a book - "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."

83% of all statistics are accurate. Fact.

You are right. The knife does cut both ways. It has also been said that one should "Measure twice, and cut once". There's also the whole "beam" vs. "mote thing. I take that as instruction to be humble.

Noted. Still, help me out here: Are you saying there's moral equivalency on both sides of Jim Crow?

No. I'm saying he current Doctrinal positions of the various "southern" churches are being misrepresented. There will always be doctrinal differences between denominations, and generally, they are heart felt beliefs that should at least be respected, if not honored. Plus, it's never clear why the whole "multicultural" and "diversity" movement, seems to have room for everyone, except conservatives, Libertarians, Southern Christians, or NASCAR fans.

When we talk about Jim Crow, we are talking about government power. If someone wanted to transact across the racial divide, it was illegal. A racist church in isolation can be condemned, but tolerated. A racist government must be fought, as the power of government is overwhelming.

To those of you replaying to the study I linked to. You can spin the numbers however you want. Cut out certain populations. Figure out who to blame. Do whatever you want with them. You say tomato. I say not tomato. Reminds me of a title of a book - "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."

83% of all statistics are accurate. Fact.

If I grant that the facts of the study are an accurate and true measure, will you explain why Affirmative Action, Welfare, AFDC, Great Society, Urban Renewal, and other Big Government programs have done nothing to mediate the problems? And even by some measures, the problems have been getting worse?

To those of you replaying to the study I linked to. You can spin the numbers however you want. Cut out certain populations. Figure out who to blame. Do whatever you want with them. You say tomato. I say not tomato. Reminds me of a title of a book - "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."

83% of all statistics are accurate. Fact.

If I grant that the facts of the study are an accurate and true measure, will you explain why Affirmative Action, Welfare, AFDC, Great Society, Urban Renewal, and other Big Government programs have done nothing to mediate the problems? And even by some measures, the problems have been getting worse?

If I was going to spend my time explaining how these issues have worsened, I'd start with tax breaks for corporations and the uber-wealthy.

To those of you replaying to the study I linked to. You can spin the numbers however you want. Cut out certain populations. Figure out who to blame. Do whatever you want with them. You say tomato. I say not tomato. Reminds me of a title of a book - "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."

83% of all statistics are accurate. Fact.

If I grant that the facts of the study are an accurate and true measure, will you explain why Affirmative Action, Welfare, AFDC, Great Society, Urban Renewal, and other Big Government programs have done nothing to mediate the problems? And even by some measures, the problems have been getting worse?

If I was going to spend my time explaining how these issues have worsened, I'd start with tax breaks for corporations and the uber-wealthy.

Are the evil corporations stealing the vast resources of the inner city poor?

Or are you saying that we should take even more money from people, and set up even more government programs, and add even more trillions to those already spent, in the face of such efforts having failed over the last 50 years?

What's that definition of insanity again?

To those of you replaying to the study I linked to. You can spin the numbers however you want. Cut out certain populations. Figure out who to blame. Do whatever you want with them. You say tomato. I say not tomato. Reminds me of a title of a book - "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."

83% of all statistics are accurate. Fact.

If I grant that the facts of the study are an accurate and true measure, will you explain why Affirmative Action, Welfare, AFDC, Great Society, Urban Renewal, and other Big Government programs have done nothing to mediate the problems? And even by some measures, the problems have been getting worse?

Having read your most recent post (not the one cited above), I'll just say this. I take you to be steadfast in your beliefs. If I am connecting posts and person correctly, I also take you to be not a youngin'. You have countless life experiences which have shaped your beliefs. It's very clear to me where you stand on this issue. So you must take me to be a fool if I am going to entertain a pointless opportunity. When the answer's implied in your question, I choose to leave it alone.

To those of you replaying to the study I linked to. You can spin the numbers however you want. Cut out certain populations. Figure out who to blame. Do whatever you want with them. You say tomato. I say not tomato. Reminds me of a title of a book - "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics."

83% of all statistics are accurate. Fact.

If I grant that the facts of the study are an accurate and true measure, will you explain why Affirmative Action, Welfare, AFDC, Great Society, Urban Renewal, and other Big Government programs have done nothing to mediate the problems? And even by some measures, the problems have been getting worse?

Having read your most recent post (not the one cited above), I'll just say this. I take you to be steadfast in your beliefs. If I am connecting posts and person correctly, I also take you to be not a youngin'. You have countless life experiences which have shaped your beliefs. It's very clear to me where you stand on this issue. So you must take me to be a fool if I am going to entertain a pointless opportunity. When the answer's implied in your question, I choose to leave it alone.

It's not me you should be trying to convince. It's the undecided ones in this forum.

Beside's, I'm not sure how steadfast my beliefs are. I've pretty much changed from a doctrinaire, Al Gore voting Democrat to where I am now. Is it because I am brain washed? Or is it that I started looking at the events and facts of my "countless life experiences"? Maybe evening thinking about them, instead of being told what to think about them?

So, I have reevaluated my beliefs, and made a halting journey away from being a lockstep NY Times spouting Liberal. Now, who's supposed to be the closed minded one again?

P.S. Just so you know, I never watch Fox News. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Your confusion might be lessened if you researched the difference between social conservatives and libertarians.

Hold on - there are conservative libertarians and liberal libertarians, and they are no more alike than conservative authoritarians and liberal authoritarians. Conservative libertarians - the Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman school - are basically conservatives who want to watch porn and smoke dope.

Try this simple quiz. It's no more rigorously scientific than any other short online quiz, but it does make you think.

http://www.politicalcompass.org

Hey Robin the dope smoking porn thing is old material - you can do better than that.

I'm curious as how conservative or liberal can be applied to libertarians (small l variety) - what is the differentiating litmus test?

Before I disappear for the day, here's an actual point of conversation that does not involve overhauling how the nation operates. Maybe this thread is the wrong spot for it, given the evidence I'm going to cite. To the best of my ability I am implying no blame or sterotypes in the following statement.

Since this thread has become focused on politics and combative in nature, there has not been a single post by a female forum participant (I might be overlooking one and I am basing this on user names). What does that say? Discuss.

[Robin Garr]

http://www.politicalcompass.org

I'm curious as how conservative or liberal can be applied to libertarians (small l variety) - what is the differentiating litmus test?

Clickie the linkie. The short answer is that there are two axes: Conservative vs liberal is X, authoritarian vs liberatarian is Y. "Libertarian" is not the opposite of "liberal," it is the opposite of "authoritarian." Authoritarians can be right (Hitler) or left (Stalin); something similar applies to Libertarians. For more accuracy in labeling, it's helpful to plot one's position on a two-axis graph.

Since this thread has become... combative in nature...