The Chick-Fil-A/Libertarian/Gay Marriage thread ;)

Since this thread has become focused on politics and combative in nature, there has not been a single post by a female forum participant (I might be overlooking one and I am basing this on user names). What does that say? Discuss.

The women have responsibilities and jobs to do?

[Robin Garr]

Since this thread has become... combative in nature...

Yeah, I'm thinking if you want to see combat you should probably go visit the comments section on the CJ site.

I do have a feeling none of us are going to convince each other, though. The forum message board format is kind of limiting. This is the kind of stuff best discussed over tasty libations, leading me to wonder if a Political Discussion Offline would be possible or even desirable some time.

bring it on , i am all for the drinks and food but it looks like meeting at chic filet is out because they dont have a bar ,

I think it showed a delightful sense of prudence. I'm trying to stay there myself, remembering what Mark Twain said about doing battle with an unarmed man.

That's a great excuse for not having an opinion or viable solutions, typical of the far left these days.

This response to Robin's good-natured post was a huge turnoff for this female forumite. The creepy article (using the word "feminist" a bunch of times in a negative, condescending way) that this same poster threw in on page 1 of the thread was really gross. I had no interest in replying because I knew anything I said would be savaged. It's all just been a huge turnoff - I have strong political, social and moral opinions that I voice and discuss plenty. But I don't come here to read sad tales of the Plight of the White Male in America. It's lame and it creeps me out.

preach on sister ,

Since this thread has become... combative in nature...

Yeah, I'm thinking if you want to see combat you should probably go visit the comments section on the CJ site.

I do have a feeling none of us are going to convince each other, though. The forum message board format is kind of limiting. This is the kind of stuff best discussed over tasty libations, leading me to wonder if a Political Discussion Offline would be possible or even desirable some time.

No amount of convincing works. Folks have to convince themselves.

I like the give and take of a political discussion, just to learn why others of good will believe what they believe. Part of moving away from being a Liberal is the realization, that you don't get the automatic assumption of goodwill anymore. It's the Liberals good vs. Conservatives Bad thing. It gets really, really old. This is why I can now identify with Southern Baptists, who I used to vilify as a good lockstep Liberal.

So, a political offline? Maybe. Not sure that the libations would be enhanced though.

this is whats great about america we can discuss are political beliefs with out fear of jail over good beer and food and regardless of right wing or left wing its are right as the people to have them and i truly love that !!!

[Robin Garr]

Part of moving away from being a Liberal is the realization, that you don't get the automatic assumption of goodwill anymore. It's the Liberals good vs. Conservatives Bad thing. It gets really, really old. This is why I can now identify with Southern Baptists, who I used to vilify as a good lockstep Liberal.

Lockstep? HAHAHAHA!! Ask Harry Reid how he feels about that.

But I digress: In all honesty, not speaking against the Southern Baptists - I have some good friends at the seminary on the next hill over - but speaking only for myself, it's hard to see any solid interpretation of the fundamental message of the Gospels, and of Torah, than to care for the poor, the widow, the orphan and the stranger, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Both Rabbi Jesus and Rabbi Hillel taught that same message, without leaving much wiggle room for getting to decide which neighbor, or which stranger, to love.

Part of moving away from being a Liberal is the realization, that you don't get the automatic assumption of goodwill anymore. It's the Liberals good vs. Conservatives Bad thing. It gets really, really old. This is why I can now identify with Southern Baptists, who I used to vilify as a good lockstep Liberal.

Lockstep? HAHAHAHA!! Ask Harry Reid how he feels about that.

But I digress: In all honesty, not speaking against the Southern Baptists - I have some good friends at the seminary on the next hill over - but speaking only for myself, it's hard to see any solid interpretation of the fundamental message of the Gospels, and of Torah, than to care for the poor, the widow, the orphan and the stranger, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Both Rabbi Jesus and Rabbi Hillel taught that same message, without leaving much wiggle room for getting to decide which neighbor, or which stranger, to love.

I'm really not up on discussing Christian doctrinal disagreements. But, I don't think that Jesus said you could contract out your obligations to a government, that even worse, forces folks to contribute to activities that go against their Biblical understanding.

Six pages of overlooking the basic point, which I will encapsulate in my preferred way.

"Death to chains."

Thank you.

[quote="Robin Garr" Conservative libertarians - the Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman school[/quote]

What are two people who have nothing in common?

Oh, this isnt jeopardy?

As a libertarian, I give thee my two rules of libertarianism:

1. Everyone agrees with libertarians about something.
2. No two libertarians agree about anything.

Also 2b. Libertarians who disagree about #2 dont have a sense of humor.

/And I hate the "republicans who smoke dope BS".
//dont smoke dope, but feel free

The forum message board format is kind of limiting. This is the kind of stuff best discussed over tasty libations, leading me to wonder if a Political Discussion Offline would be possible or even desirable some time.

Agreed. Hyperbole gets missed and lots of other stuff.

Of course, it should be held in a restuarant but not a bar, for reasons apparent from today's google+ discussion.

[Your confusion might be lessened if you researched the difference between social conservatives and libertarians.

Hold on - there are conservative libertarians and liberal libertarians, and they are no more alike than conservative authoritarians and liberal authoritarians. Conservative libertarians - the Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman school - are basically conservatives who want to watch porn and smoke dope.

Try this simple quiz. It's no more rigorously scientific than any other short online quiz, but it does make you think.

http://www.politicalcompass.org

Hey Robin the dope smoking porn thing is old material - you can do better than that.

I'm curious as how conservative or liberal can be applied to libertarians (small l variety) - what is the differentiating litmus test?

I think the easiest litmus test is: Should government regulate X?

If you say yes, you are either a liberal or a conservative, depending on what X is. If you say no, regardless of the value of X, you are a libertarian.

And, of course, there is a continuum, so a clear and simple litmus test doesnt really exist. Heck, there are probably a few things that I would answer yes to, but I cant immediately think of one.

Heck, there are probably a few things that I would answer yes to, but I cant immediately think of one.

Food safety?

http://www.politicalcompass.org

I'm curious as how conservative or liberal can be applied to libertarians (small l variety) - what is the differentiating litmus test?

Clickie the linkie. The short answer is that there are two axes: Conservative vs liberal is X, authoritarian vs liberatarian is Y. "Libertarian" is not the opposite of "liberal," it is the opposite of "authoritarian." Authoritarians can be right (Hitler) or left (Stalin); something similar applies to Libertarians. For more accuracy in labeling, it's helpful to plot one's position on a two-axis graph.

On an actual food related question, are Food Truck regulations on the economic or the social axis? Some would say economic, and that makes sense since most of those government officials wanting to regulate/ban them are more of the liberal persuasion (although that isnt universal at all). However, for some reason, I see it as a social issue. But that may just be me being weird.

Too be honest, I hate the whole "a libertarian is socially liberal and economically conservative" thing. I prefer socially libertarian and economically libertarian. It might be subtle, but I see a distinction.