Whole Foods CEO vs. Obama's health insurance reform

The insurers still have an incentive to make otherworldly profits and there is no check on them as would be provided by a public option or the non-profit co-ops.

There is nothing stopping non-profit co-ops now. They exist all over the place. Ending the interstate insurance ban would make the current ones more available. Plus, if you really want to go that route, just start one.

I'm sure starting a non-profit co-op is easier said than done. As a micro business owner I know how hard it is just to make coffee for a living let ALONE run a non-profit on the side.

As for companies having to pay exorbatant amounts on their employees health insurance, a public option or a single payer system would relieve you of some or all of that burden. I don't feel it's the employers' obligation. I feel strongly it's the government's obligation. I view it as a national security issue. If we don't reform the system comprehensively it'll bankrupt us all.

I'm not a Republican, and I do support health care reform, but I think there's a bit of information about HSAs.

Since we're self-employed and in the highest tax bracket, we have an HSA. It by no means we get no health care. Instead, we have a high-deductible, low premium policy (about 1/4 what it would cost if we had a "full service" plan). This policy is coupled with a health savings account, and that is tax deductible. So, at the federal level, that means that each $1 I put in the plan costs $.65 in real dollars. I get checkups, as do my children, and if I or they get sick, it's out of the health savings account if it doesn't meet the deductible. The money in the HSA rolls over year to year, is invested as I see fit, and, if it's still around at retirement age, is basically treated as an IRA.

Most of the time, this effectively means that all of our health care is out of pocket (it's deducted from the HSA). It also means that it costs us 65 cents on the dollar - and, of course, we get the insurance-bargained discount rates.

After the deductible, everything is covered (which is a lot more than can be said of most traditional plans) with no limits. In essence, the insurance part is just that, insurance to make sure that we're not wiped out in an accident or catastrophic illness.

We're done the math, and even paying out of pocket, we're saving thousands of dollars a year even if we have a couple of colds and accidents during the year, and we still have insurance in case we get in a catastrophic situation that would be hundreds of thousands.

So, HSAs are very, very good for some people. Though there are significant drawbacks: (1) you have to have enough money to put in the health savings account (2) the higher your tax bracket, the more it's worth, and (3) depending on how you invest the HSA, you have signifcant market risk.

(3) depending on how you invest the HSA, you have signifcant market risk.

On the last point, that is very true and until it the account is significantly built up, investing in anything other than very safe investments is risky.

Using the standard rule of not putting anything you need in the next 5 years in the market, I would have 5 times my deductible invested in cash equivalent assets. Once you have more than that, go crazy (in a prudent way).

Notice the number one point he makes - high premium plans.

Living under a high premium plan means no regular doctor visits because you have a $2,500 premium = health care shouldn't only be for the catastrophic emergency - it also should be for check-ups and preventative care. I should not have to debate if I should spend my 1500$ personal wellness monies to get a flu shot or take my son to the pediatrician or get a massage or new glasses.

Jesus. Welcome to my life. I pay $154 a month for a plan with a $3000 deductible. If I want to go to the doctor, I have to pay a $25 co-pay...and then pay the full amount anyway on top of that. I just paid $350 for a minor chest cold.

Anyone care to cut off my hand? So that my insurance isn't such a freaking joke?

Also- regardless of where you stand on Obama's proposed reform (I'm all for it, though I would like an even more explicitly government option if I had my 'drothers) you have to admit the current system is completely effed.

Well this gives me another reason why I don't like Whole Foods.
Besides, Fresh Market is way better!

Let me make my position a tad clearer. It's not that I don't support HSA or other innovations in the health insurance market. HSA will continue to play a role for small, medium and large employers too. They can be a good option for those with secure employment or who own their own business. What I am arguing for is comprehensive reform that would achieve several things:

Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.

Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.

Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.


HSAs, insurance companies, high deductible plans and many other products will still be available in the marketplace. No one reform is the solution. I do not believe it is possible to shift the US health insurance market overnight or even in a decade to a European-style single payer system even if the model clearly is better prepared to ensure coverage for all, keep costs down and most importantly not make money on the backs of the sick, and infirm (a business model I find morally bankrupt). Neither Obama nor I are suggesting a revolution. We are stating the need for reform because the current system is a failure for up to hundreds of millions of people.

To bring it back full circle some of John Mackie's ideas have value and can work in tandem with the administrations reforms but they are no substitute for what he has termed "Obamacare". I wish someone could pierce his star chamber and let him know how his company has devolved over the last 15 years from what was was once a pioneering model for workers happiness, organic foods and foodie culture to one that has become what at best can be described as the Wal-Mart of high end 'natural' foods.

My main issue with Whole Foods is that the can of CDM coffee they sell for $8.99 is available at Viet Hoa on Preston for $3.99.

Yeah, when I read the article (I saw it a few days ago), it made me like Whole Foods a bit less.

Two words sum up my opinion: Single Payer.

Our whole bloated system is ridiculous. Why should so much money be going to administrative costs, advertising, marketing, sales commissions, etc? When I go to a doc office, I don't want to meet with an army of paper pushers, I want to see a doc or a nurse.

I have plentiful horror stories that I've experienced personally. My wife and I don't have insurance because it'd be over $10,000 EACH per year. (as per Blue Cross quotes). I haven't been to the doc in two years, and that was for a physical. She goes for routine stuff, and has NEVER been hospitalized for anything. We simply can't afford 20K/year. How many of us can? Especially when we are healthy and don't even use doctors for anything more than checkups!

When my baby was born a year ago, we got Blue Cross. Went down for the one month physical. We had just gotten the coverage a few days prior, and didn't have the policy number yet. They wouldn't let us do the physical. Nope. They wanted us to pay cash up front. I said NO WAY. Total BS.

Then, when getting shots a few months later, we discovered shots aren't covered. They go against your deductable. It is about 150 per visit. CRAZY. Why don't the insurance companies cover shots? Do they want their clients to get polio, mumps, measles, etc? What in the world are they thinking?

They're thinking "Maximize profits."

Single Payer. Do away with these corporate leaches (to use the phrase my campaign manager used when describing Cordish). The insurance companies have no place in something as fundamental to our lives as health care. Begone!

My main issue with Whole Foods is that the can of CDM coffee they sell for $8.99 is available at Viet Hoa on Preston for $3.99.

WOW, a Home Owner Association that sells coffee. Very cool.

I love all the health plan experts on the forum.

Some reasons health care costs a lot:

1. Lack of reasonable tort reform.

2. No one want's to pay for anything. That includes insurance companies and consumers.

3. Health care is now a "right"...umm ok....but now even "good health" is a right. If you get a bad disease it's someone else's fault. Get my lawyer on the phone.

4. People want "everything" covered. I thought insurance was for unexpected events. Would you buy food insurance? I guess we need massages, chiropractors, and aromatherapy covered as well. Also pay for my jock itch cream (oops that's an unexpected event), my Viagra, and my hair-loss lotion. By the way doc can you throw in a few Valium and Lortab.

5. 80% of Medicare dollars are spent during the last 3 months of life...are we really getting our money's worth?

6. No one dies at home anymore....we gotta be hooked up to 20 drips, a vent, with a hose in every orifice for a couple of months before we "cash in".

7. New technology costs money. You want it...you gotta pay for it.

8. People at large put more "faith" in medicine than it deserves. There is still a crap load of stuff we really can't do and we treat a ton of crap that doesn't need treated. Everyone wants a miracle...me too.

9. You come to my office to see me and pay a co-pay of $35...I file a claim for $75 and get $10. How's about you pay me $40 total and we skip the insurance company? I won't have to have 3 people on my staff just to chase this crap.

Other truths...

The government at the upper levels has no clue....this is more politics than healthcare. Of course they are all lawyers looking out for each other...how about some tort reform! All the ENT's taking tonsils out instead of treating allergies or surgeons charging $30K to chop off your diabetic foot are the problem...to quote a couple of recent nonsensical statements from the top.

The AMA does not represent the wishes of most physicians....a minority of physicians are now members. They abandon the practicing physician for politics years ago.

I've practiced medicine in a variety of settings over the last 20 years...university, Veteran's Administration, and the last 10 in private office practice. I currently split my time between office practice and hospice medicine. I don't have answers for all the problems in the costs of healthcare....but I don't trust the government to manage the entire ball of wax. I don't trust the government at the federal level to accomplish much of anything. I certainly support some reasonable and incremental insurance reform and (again) tort reform. (speaking from the political center)

P.S. The government should subsidize and cover all vaccines as a matter of public health.

Let me make my position a tad clearer. It's not that I don't support HSA or other innovations in the health insurance market. HSA will continue to play a role for small, medium and large employers too. They can be a good option for those with secure employment or who own their own business. What I am arguing for is comprehensive reform that would achieve several things:

Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.

Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.

Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.


HSAs, insurance companies, high deductible plans and many other products will still be available in the marketplace. No one reform is the solution. I do not believe it is possible to shift the US health insurance market overnight or even in a decade to a European-style single payer system even if the model clearly is better prepared to ensure coverage for all, keep costs down and most importantly not make money on the backs of the sick, and infirm (a business model I find morally bankrupt). Neither Obama nor I are suggesting a revolution. We are stating the need for reform because the current system is a failure for up to hundreds of millions of people.

To bring it back full circle some of John Mackie's ideas have value and can work in tandem with the administrations reforms but they are no substitute for what he has termed "Obamacare". I wish someone could pierce his star chamber and let him know how his company has devolved over the last 15 years from what was was once a pioneering model for workers happiness, organic foods and foodie culture to one that has become what at best can be described as the Wal-Mart of high end 'natural' foods.

Much of this is simply ridiculous.

Why should the insurance company pay for you taking care of yourself? Isn't it your own best interest?

Why a family plan until age 26? Grow up and get a job.

Insurance companies survive by pooling risk. Just like your car and life insurance companies. What you are asking for is unlimited subsidized healthcare.

My daughter has lived in France for a brief period and has now been in the UK for several years. She's been very happy with the government health care programs they have. When she returned home for a visit she was very surprised to hear the bad rap that government programs overseas were given here in the US. I have no idea the difference between what Obama proposes and what England's health plan is. I know what we have now is not working at all.

I think a lot of the banter about people not being able to afford health insurance involves some lack of information about what is available to them. I do know that the plan i get from work is extremely expensive. However we found a Humana ONE plan online for my fiance and she is now insured for the first time in years.

Yes, it is high deductible, and that burned us this year because she had a cat scan which cost a wad of cash. But the plan itself is only a little over 100 a month, includes unlimited doctor visits at the contracted co-pay amount, dental including 2 paid preventative visits, and also pretty steep discount on medical care as long as your using a network provider. I think most people, even those at the lower end of the salary scale, could manage 100 bucks a month. The important thing is you have the peace of mind knowing that a catastrophic medical event is not going to bankrupt you financially. Until we did the research i never had any idea that there were such affordable health plans available, high-deductible or not.

Yes the costs may add up year after year if you are not a healthy person, but for someone like myself who rarely ever goes to the doctor, im starting to wonder why i shouldn't just get a cheaper high-deductible plan for myself. Combined with an HSA and healthy living habits its a pretty solid deal for many Americans. I don't totally disagree with his article.

In many aspects Obama's propasal is nothing more than a shell game. He talks of ending current subsidies to insurance companies to ensure everyone. The problem is that the current subsidies are what enables the Aetna's and Humana's Medicare replacement plans to offer better covrage than traditional Medicare. So, remove the "subsidies" and seniors will experience higher Medicare premiums and costshare in an effort to insure the "poor".

If you are a kid or an adult with some sort of disability, I will happily pay higher taxes to ensure your medical care.

Though, for the others who "choose" to not have healthcare, I honestly dont care about the 27 year old who sits home all day playing Playstation instead of working.

Did anybody else tonight watch the CNN clip of the guy from his apartment complaining that he can't afford health insurance while the 47 to 50 inch plasma was hanging from his wall?