Perceptions of Louisville

Didnt know about Light up being a Brown and Williamson deal, but it makes sense now.Thats pretty bad.I was not trying to debate on corporate influence,it is obviously rampant, but some things like fireworks really cant be spoiled. Also youre right Robin no need to over analyze fireworks, just want to add a follow up. I am not sure Key is as responsible for the long tradition of fireworks in this country as is John Adams. I doubt Key had fireworks on his mind. Adams wrote a letter to his wife the day The Declaration of Independence was declared saying, it ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade,with shows,games,sports,guns,bells,bonfires, and illuminations,from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward evermore. I am not hyperpatriotic, just love a good fireworks show. I also do get embarassed by friends and family in Chicago that refer to thunder as our huge hoe down in April.

Speaking of outside perceptions, when the Soviet Union used to show off its military fire power in front of large crowds, we pointed to it as obvious propaganda.

It's been sold to us locally as a benign community celebration but what do you think other countries would see if they watched tens of thousands of Louisvillians cheering for a stealth bomber?

Even if it's unintended (and I don 't really think it is), it's bad PR.

1. Thunder Over Louisville. Downright embarrassing, this is a steroid-ish flying ad for a U.S. military that primarily exists to increase international market share for bankers and corporations.

What the heck does that mean?

Corporate cheerleaders (or the hyperpatriotic) do tend to be blind to this reality.

Being the literalist that I am I'm going to back up TP here and ask:

No, really, what does this mean?

"to increase market share for bankers and corporations"

and, pardon me here Steve, but can anyone answer it without being snide?

It's one of those "if you don't know already then nobody can really inform you" sort of things.

OK.....then the honest answer could be "No, Ed, I can't. But I would like to present my argument and perhaps show you what I think those connections are."

I respect the opinion of people, lucid discussion being the core of an educated democracy and all. I respect the viewpoint of glorification of the military as exhibited by the airshow.

Speaking only for myself I am proud of the men and women throughout history who have dedicated their lives to defending our right to have a viewpoint and the ability to question authority when needed. Thank you.

I was just hoping that you could back that bold generalization up with some facts on how Thunder over Louisville was swelling the coffers of Schlumberger, Bechtel, Procter & Gamble, Kraft et al. It's hard to convince my 10 year old that his love of fireworks, corn dogs and noisy happy crowds sharing the joie de vivre of thunder is leading directly to your point.

I would like to at least hear your argument, either a priori or a posteriori.

While not a fan of the air show, I do love the fireworks. But then again, I'm from Louisville, so that may make a difference. To me, it marks the begining of the Derby Festival, a very important time for our city and its commerce, including the 'emerging downtown' that was cited as a pro. We make a lot of money off the Derby Festival, and I mean A LOT.

Doesn't it seem also that the 'emerging downtown' as a pro and '4th street live' as a con are at odds with each other? I mean, c'mon, if we're going to grow our downtown, then we have to do things like that. Again, while not a fan of 4th street, it brings in a lot of money to our city. People come in from all over the state (as well as other places) and rent hotel rooms, dowtown, so they can eat dinner, downtown, go to a play, downtown, ride in a carriage, downtown, and go to nightclubs, downtown, so they can have that 'big city experience'. It may seem lame to you, but for some people, it is a real getaway, and once again, brings money to our city and encourages business owners to expand into the downtown market.

I love Louisville and all its quirks and idiosyncrasies. I would never make a pro and con list of it. Sure there are things that I wouldn't spend my money on, but so what? One of the things I have always loved about louisville is that it truely has something for everyone, whether your deal is going to a dive bar vs. going to a chain nightclub, or going to an air show vs. flying your kite in Cherokee park. I would hate it if this was a cookie cutter town where everyone was the same and did the exact same things. That to me would be the biggest con of all.

As a B&B owner, I love 4th Street Live. Well actually I've only been there 2-3 times myself, but my guests love it! It provides that big city feel that a lot of people want while out of town. Last month two of my guests caught a Three Dog Night concert there. (Ah the memories!!)

By the way, Welcome to Louisville, Mike. We are a big bunch of quirky fun folks and we are fiercely loyal to our town, warts and all we do love her so! Stay awhile and find out why.

I like the airshow better than the fireworks. I recall there being planes in the airshow that were not military.

and I love telling people in other cities that Louisville has a festival called Light Up Louisville sponsored by a cigarette company. Now, if we could just get Brown Forman to sponsor Bottoms Up Louisville!

It would be odd for someone to Chicago to complain about Thunder, because Chicago has many large scale fireworks shows, and also the large Air and Water Show with many of the same aerial exhibitioners.

First off, good call on the variety of good restaurants in the city. I should have included that. By the way, the whole point of the list was for curiosity...increase my own perspective of the city, etc.

Okay...Thunder Over Louisville. The point was simplistically made (although Naomi Klein is fairly simplistic herself in book form) simply for the sake of brevity, but it was certainly not implied or intended that those going for a good time (or for fireworks) are somehow directly complicit in a more sinister aspect. Speaking of, with some exceptions, our country's military stance is one of "spreading democracy" to increase market share for corporations. Simple as that. Knowing that is the case, I can't enjoy a hyper-nationalistic (and don't tell me that isn't plenty of chest-thumping) display of military strength. Thunder certainly works well as marketing and indoctrination. In the last 60 years, our military has gone from the size of Belgium's to the out-of-control and over-extended military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned about. I'm no pacifist, but some introspection and examination wouldn't hurt for Thundergoers.

Speaking of downtown and 4th street live, may a vibrant downtown be left alone by more of Cordish's tackiness. In a similar aspect, White Castle is building a bigger building on Market, but that doesn't mean it's good for downtown.

It would be odd for someone to Chicago to complain about Thunder, because Chicago has many large scale fireworks shows, and also the large Air and Water Show with many of the same aerial exhibitioners.

I didnt mean to imply that they were complaining, just that they like to poke fun at people from the south. Two week party for a two minute horse race, thats okay though I dont expect them to get it.

In a similar aspect, White Castle is building a bigger building on Market, but that doesn't mean it's good for downtown.

Hey, no hatin' on the Castle.

[Robin Garr]

Hey, no hatin' on the Castle.

I was just gonna say! The new one is actually a part of Clay Street Live!

Hey, all those indoctrinated corporate pocket-liners need somewhere to eat after they leave 4th Street Live at 4:00 in the morning.

Michael, just out of curiosity, from where did you move? You mentioned that you 'chose' Louisville. What were some of the other contenders?

I've held my tongue long enough.

I have many, many family members who are in the military, some of whom are in the middle east, fighting for your freedom. If you want to be against the President, fine. Classifying Thunder as a "steroid-ish flying ad for a U.S. military that primarily exists to increase international market share for bankers and corporations," however, is completely absurd.

I'm really tired of this holier-than-thou anti-military sentiment. It seems as though anyone who is proud of our country, or just plain enjoys seeing the planes and fireworks, is looked down upon by people who view themselves and their viewpoints as superior to others'.

As far as the original posters' friends and/or family making fun of people who happen to live here, that just shows their ignorance. I personally could care less. I know how great of a place this is. If someone wants to subscribe to the typical "ignorant southerner" stereotype, that's their problem, not mine.

As far as Fourth Street goes, maybe it is commercialized, but damn, is it fun! Maybe if people weren't so worried about this or that being sooo commercial, and were more worried about going out and having fun, this country might not be so ridiculously politically correct and litigious.

This board used to be a fun place where people could go to talk about food, now it's republicans and democrats sniping at each other, and people who eat at chains against people who don't, and vice versa. Can't well all just get along? For REAL?

That is all.

Amen, Michelle. Well done.