A warning to those in Phoenix Hill, Irish Hill, NULU, and Bu

Castle Doctrine.

KRS 503.080 - titled as "Protection of Property." Easily found on Google.

I'll refrain from commentary.

I'm keeping my jaws clamped too, Matthew. One curious question, though: Can you tell if that statute is old law, or a recent arrival, perhaps NRA-influenced?

My conceal carry class was over ten years ago, if that helps.

I guess I don't understand why people are so "into" guns and killing other people.

Here is a very informative site on self-defense. (and yes, I realize that home self defense is different than self defense in general. But isn't protecting your family and yourself ultimately what matters, no matter where you are?)

Talking about home defense: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/homedefense.html

Talking about the "best weapon:" http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/Bestweapon.html

a general overview: http://www..com/self-defense.htm

and a discussion of physical stuff : http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/st ... veness.htm

There truly is no "one size fits all" solution for keeping yourself safe.

(one of the instructors at my school, besides his multiple black belts - one in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, is former Special Ops. So he brings a healthy dose of real life techniques to the classes.)

I guess I don't understand why people are so "into" guns and killing other people.

Lots of people, me included, have guns and are not "into" killing people. If some crackhead kicks my door in at 3:00 in the morning my best chance for surviving is shooting him.

I guess I don't understand why people are so "into" guns and killing other people.

Lots of people, me included, have guns and are not "into" killing people. If some crackhead kicks my door in at 3:00 in the morning my best chance for surviving is shooting him.

Justin,

Perhaps "into" isn't the best word. Maybe, "willingness to" would be better.

But I must respectfully disagree with your above scenario. You say your best chance of surviving would be be shooting him. I'd disagree. I'd say go out the other door, achieve a safe distance, and call the cops would give you a better survival chance. Let the cops do their job.

First of all, the crackhead isn't there to kill you!!! Huge point! So you're going to likely survive this break-in. The crackhead is there to fuel his habit. He wants your laptop, your dvds, or anything else he can grab and run with. If you yell, he'd probably take off running. But there are a million unknowns. One thing for pretty certain, is that you know your house better than he does. That gives you an advantage.

Guns are effective at a distance, but houses tend to be close range. A crackhead may also be on other drugs. Some, like meth or PCP, can help keep someone coming at you after being shot one or more times. So suppose (your plan) you shoot him from across the room. Where do you hit him? Did you hit him in the center of the chest, or did you graze his arm? What if he is now enraged, and he is fighting for survival, and he now pulls out his knife (which he previously had in his pocket - after all, he's looking for DVD's to grab) and lunges at you. You've turned a bad situation into one where your life is now seriously at risk. It takes a second to cover fifteen feet. Now you're in hand to hand combat. You might hit him a second time, If you're lucky or very skilled, you've gotten good hits on him and he can't make it to you. But this is a dark room and happening fast.

If he's on top of you, your gun is virtually useless, and only increases the chance of your own death.

No. Best bet is to go out the other door and call the cops.

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And I'm not just talking out the side of my neck. Just last night, my 7 year old's karate class (he's in the advanced class) spent about half an hour going through weapons defenses. Yesterday, they covered clubs. They also do knives. They show you what to do, discuss philosophy and general concepts of how to win such a confrontation, and go through it with partners over and over and over again. If you don't do it right, your partner hits you with the club (not hard - and they are rubber, but you feel it). Standard training for mid-level belts, and you revisit it time and time again, until the actions become reflex.

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One of the points is that no one weapon/technique works in all situations. And that it is best to avoid violence if possible. Let him collect his CD's and DVD's while the cops race your way.

I've been in a business invasion/break-in situation with an agressive intruder before at my brewery in Tucson. Microbrewery on a dead-end street in a warehouse district. Late on a Sunday night (closed). I was able to get my wife to a safe locked room where I had her call 911, and I de-fused the situation to keep the guy there until police arrived. No violence (he did break some things). One bad guy in custody. He even had to pay me damages after his court date. He had serious problems, but he didn't deserve to die.

But I must respectfully disagree with your above scenario. You say your best chance of surviving would be be shooting him. I'd disagree. I'd say go out the other door, achieve a safe distance, and call the cops would give you a better survival chance.

I don't have that option in my house, two doors in the kitchen. I don't have an option to run, nor do I really want to.

First of all, the crackhead isn't there to kill you!!! Huge point!

Maybe not, but he would kill/harm to get his fix.

If you yell, he'd probably take off running.

I doubt it, nobody breaks into home, knowing people are home, are runs from a yelling homeowner. They are going to bash you in the head a steal your stuff.
.

Guns are effective at a distance, but houses tend to be close range. A crackhead may also be on other drugs. Some, like meth or PCP, can help keep someone coming at you after being shot one or more times.

Thats is why I don't want to pepper spray, taze, or fight them. They won't keep coming after a few rounds of 00 buck hit them.

Let him collect his CD's and DVD's while the cops race your way.

Nope, what if he decides I'm such a push over he is going to rape my wife. "Hey this guy is scared shitless, he is letting me do whatever I want". Not going to happen in my house.

A gun wins a fist fight almost always. I'll "fight" anybody if I have my gun and they only have fists.

DITTO.. Crackheads tend to lose their humanity and value their fix over your life.

DITTO.. Crackheads tend to lose their humanity and value their fix over your life.

My blood pressure is already THROUGH the roof today, so what the hell...

Anyone who is willing to shoot a home intruder values property over life.

I'd be willing to shoot as a last resort. But man, a person's lost his/her humanity if he/she can't see beyond the shooting and imagine a life where they'd never think, in the middle of the night, " $%#*, I killed someone."

Notes:

1. As Nimbus has already argued (hey buddy, good points!), there are other options. Seriously, there are.

2. No matter how much you want to belittle the intruder - crackhead, criminal, he had this coming, another criminal off the street, he got what he deserved - he is still a human and you killed him.

Try defending yourself in a wheelchair..

I guess I don't understand why people are so "into" guns and killing other people.

this is not about killing people. it's about survival. them or me.
from a quote from a blog that nimbus has shared:

"Can you, in a moment of calm reflection, decide that you are willing to take another human life in order to protect your life or those of your loved ones. And live with the consequences for the rest of your life?" you bet'cha i could.

"Can you make this decision, knowing full well that if you pull the trigger it would destroy life as you know it?"
when its comes down to a nano second and some nut case having broken into my home and has threatened me. i would not hesitate to pull the trigger.
there is no room for negotiations here. it's them or me and i plan to be around. i assume this nut case isn't thinking about my feelings either here. "oh wait he's thinking as he's threatening me, "i must think of the consequences here." pleeeze, give me a break.
i have taken every precaution first. burglar alarm system. security cameras on my property.

i hope i never have to use my weapon, but if given the choice them or me. he will be swiss cheese....

Annemarie,
I respectfully disagree with your premise that "it's about survival. Them or me."

No. There is no requirement that one of you dies. In fact, the burglar only wants your stuff. He's not there for a fight or a murder. Nothing wrong with you surviving, but that doesn't mean you need to shoot anyone either.

The site simply wants to make sure that you've thought through the consequences, and are ready to take the necessary actions. Sounds like you have.

They'd also give you kudos on taking safety precautions to prevent the situation from occurring in the first place. Lighting outside is good (I assume you have), alarm system is good. Here's 22 tips for ya: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/homesecurity.html

Cheers

I had all the above yet....

Try defending yourself from a wheelchair..

Obviously, you know the options and limitations better than me.

As you offered a ditto and someone else offered a ditto to what you said - which had nothing to do with being in a wheelchair - my point was offered more broadly than just to you (as I think you are speaking to a broader audience than just me). No offense intended, as I did not know of your particular situation.

As I've given zero consideration to the 2nd Amendment in regards to disabilities (is that the currently accepted term?), I now have something new to which give consideration...

Anyone who is willing to shoot a home intruder values property over life.

Not really, I value my life over the asshole that just kicked in my door. He isn't there with good intentions. If I knew the guy was going to take my tv and leave then fine, but it just won't happen like that. They get the tv and then move to the next item. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. It could even be your wife or daughter they "want".

I'd be willing to shoot as a last resort.

I'm not really saying any different, but I can't try to talk them out of hurting me, then fight them, then pepper spray, then taze, then decide to shoot them. By the time last resort enters your mind it is probably to late.
I hope I am never put in the situation, but if your breaking into a home you have to know getting shot is a good possibility.

Anyone who is willing to shoot a home intruder values property over life.

Not really, I value my life over the asshole that just kicked in my door. He isn't there with good intentions. If I knew the guy was going to take my tv and leave then fine, but it just won't happen like that. They get the tv and then move to the next item. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. It could even be your wife or daughter they "want".

I'd be willing to shoot as a last resort.

I'm not really saying any different, but I can't try to talk them out of hurting me, then fight them, then pepper spray, then taze, then decide to shoot them. By the time last resort enters your mind it is probably to late.
I hope I am never put in the situation, but if your breaking into a home you have to know getting shot is a good possibility.

All your points are valid, though I have no interest in talking further on this topic. Some of you believe X. Nimbus and I believe Y. No one, myself included, really seems to be learning anything here. And I gave up arguing years ago. Really, I did. Promise.

In hindsight, I should have just kept my mouth shut. Robin, I was counting on you to keep me from unclamping my jaws! Where were you?

Back to the bloodlust.

As Matthew points out, why is the punishment for trying to steal something the death penalty? Did that come out of the bible? Where did it come from? What moral teachings justify it? None that I possess.

That is my primary shock from this discussion. The willingness to take life.

I teach my children what I've learned from the Dalai Lama: that every person, no matter how bad, has some good in them. It makes me feel good to hear my child tell me that sentiment in some completely different context.

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Be safe, follow some of the 22 tips for home security I posted above. And realize that no single method of self defense is effective all the time. If I'm awakened by some big guy lunging towards my bed, I'm confident I can defend myself in that situation (not happy about the situation, but I'd have methods of defense). Your gun under your bed is useless.

And when the neighborhood teen comes into your house to steal something on a dare, I hope you're ready to live the rest of your life with your decision to be judge, jury and executioner. Think about it.

As Matthew points out, why is the punishment for trying to steal something the death penalty?

Nobody said that. If I'm awakened to someone trying to steal my car, I'm not running outside with guns blazing. I'm pretty safe in my house and I'll call the cops. If the guy starts to kick in the door, he'll have a gun pointed at him and told to leave. If he decides to kick in the door, he decided to get shot.


If I'm awakened by some big guy lunging towards my bed, I'm confident I can defend myself in that situation.

Good for you, but what about a woman living alone, or a single mother? What if it is 2 guys, what if they have weapons, what if they know karate? Having a gun gives me the upper hand and I have the option to use it. I'm not saying I'm going to shoot on sight, but you better get to moving towards the exit in a hurry.