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Robin Garr

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LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Robin Garr » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:51 pm

INDUSTRY STANDARD:
Insider Info For Those Who Dine Out
With Columnist Marsha Lynch


OK, people: Those who favor keeping children home and away from restaurant dining rooms, step to this side of the line. Those who maintain that children are people, too, and thereby have a right to go anywhere their parents or guardians accompany them, step to the other side. Now, prepare to dance — because it’s not that black and white.

First off, let’s disregard restaurants with attached playgrounds, video arcades, ball pits and life-sized animatronic characters. Those places are obviously courting the families-with-young-children crowd, and therefore children are certainly welcome. And let’s leave super-high-end-fine-dining restaurants out of the equation, too; hopefully no one’s taking any ill-behaved brats to the French Laundry in Napa Valley, or even to Le Relais here in Louisville.

But should children be taken to Applebee’s? To Palermo Viejo? To Proof on Main or 732 Social? Depends on the child.

Your child doesn’t need to be a perfect little gourmand to accompany you when you dine at any given restaurant. Most restaurants (even the higher-end ones) have a plan for feeding the younger set, regardless of whether they have a published children’s menu. You can almost invariably order buttery pasta, a grilled cheese sandwich or some sort or chicken fingers no matter where you go. However, your child does need to meet certain behavioral standards to be welcomed by the restaurant staff and fellow diners.

Rule No. 1: Children should be reasonably quiet. Of course there may be the occasional loud outburst, but these should be held to a minimum. Infants are often better companion diners than toddlers and children under the age of 10 because they tend to nap a lot, and they bring their own food.

Rule No. 2: Children should remain seated at the table unless accompanied by an adult (on the way to the restroom, for instance). There is nothing more frightening to a server than colliding with a toddler while carrying a heavy tray of hot food or breakable beverages. Don’t leave children unattended or allow them to run wild in the dining room, disturbing other patrons or staff.

Rule No. 3: Ask the server to bring the children’s food as soon as it’s ready, without waiting for the adults’ entrees — lord knows, hungry children are more likely to be unruly. If you have brought along a child whose behavior is touch-and-go, have an escape plan ready. Tell the server that if things go south (i.e., a screaming meltdown), you’ll want your food boxed up to-go, and you’ll make yourself scarce as soon as humanly possible.

Rule No. 4: Clean up after your children if they make a mess beyond their plates or the tabletop. No tip justifies your server or busser having to pick Cheerios or animal cracker crumbs out of the carpet, one by one.

The bottom line is, do take your children out to eat. Start with child-oriented restaurants and graduate to adult venues as their behavior and palates evolve. Learning to dine out with proper manners is simply part of growing up — as it should be!

Marsha Lynch has worked at many Louisville independent restaurants including Limestone, Jack Fry's, Jarfi's, L&N Wine Bar and Bistro and Café Lou Lou. She is currently a teaching assistant at Sullivan University, her alma mater.
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by JustinHammond » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:11 pm

My rule of thumb.

If there is a kids menu, yes.
If there isn't a kids menu, no.

When a child can handle the entrees off the regular menu he or she is probably ready to dine out. I'm sure I'll hear of a child that is born loving sweetbreads, brussel sprouts, and uni; there are always exceptions.


Marsha, excellent job as always.
"The idea is to eat well and not die from it-for the simple reason that that would be the end of your eating." - Jim Harrison

https://www.facebook.com/Louisville-Eat ... 129849554/
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Bill P » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:26 pm

And the congregation responded: AMEN
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Pete O » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:31 pm

As a parent of a 5 year old, 3 year old, and 1 year old twins (all boys), I took particular interes in this article. I agree with pretty much everything Marsha said. I think the most important thing is to expose children to restaurants early, and let them know your expectations of them, as well as consequences for their actions.

We take our children to all sorts of places. We live out in Fern Creek, and Aspen Creek and Sake Blue is favorites for them. These are restaurants that I would place higher on the 'nice' ladder than any chain such as Applebees, etc.

However the kids know that if they don't behave and meet our expectations, there will be no dessert (a fate worse than death in my house) or there will be a future consequence when we get home. We have friends that have 3 boys ranging from 5-9, and it is miserable going out to eat with them, because they didn't take their children anywhere when they were little, so when they were exposed to restaurants, they acted like heathens.

The only rule that Marsha mentioned that doesn't work for us is the ordering ahead for the kids. What typically happens is that the kids get their food, eat it and then have nothing to do but watch us eat and try to behave while we finish our meal ... a difficult task for young boys. We have found that ordering their meals at the same time as ours and occupying the wait with coloring sheets or even a bag of pretzels or cheerios from the diaper bag does the trick to soothe the savage beasts until the food arrives.

-Pete
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Michele Janosek » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:39 pm

Being a very new mom (Madison Shea arrived on 11/4), I have to applaud this article. I am not going to be one of those people who subject others to her outbursts because I can't find a sitter and insist on bringing her along. That being said, Mike and I will definitely be patronizing our favorite places where we can sit outside with her in good weather and make a hasty retreat if need be. We were both raised to behave when dining out and will teach Madison as well. Be on the lookout for the world's cutest baby dining al fresco this spring/summer! No Chuck E Cheese for Ms. Maddie! :lol:
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Marsha L.

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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Marsha L. » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:59 pm

JustinHammond wrote:My rule of thumb.

If there is a kids menu, yes.
If there isn't a kids menu, no.

When a child can handle the entrees off the regular menu he or she is probably ready to dine out. I'm sure I'll hear of a child that is born loving sweetbreads, brussel sprouts, and uni; there are always exceptions.


Marsha, excellent job as always.


Thanks for the props, Justin - but remember, every restaurant doesn't have an "official" or "printed" kid's menu, but most decently-run kitchens can whip up something for a kid off the menu. Don't be afraid to call ahead and ask! Every kitchen can come up with a grilled cheese or cheesy noodles. That's what the cooks are eating back there, nine times out of ten :)
Marsha Lynch
LEO columnist, free range cook/food writer/food stylist
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by JustinHammond » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:24 pm

Marsha L. wrote:
JustinHammond wrote:My rule of thumb.

If there is a kids menu, yes.
If there isn't a kids menu, no.

When a child can handle the entrees off the regular menu he or she is probably ready to dine out. I'm sure I'll hear of a child that is born loving sweetbreads, brussel sprouts, and uni; there are always exceptions.


Marsha, excellent job as always.


Thanks for the props, Justin - but remember, every restaurant doesn't have an "official" or "printed" kid's menu, but most decently-run kitchens can whip up something for a kid off the menu. Don't be afraid to call ahead and ask! Every kitchen can come up with a grilled cheese or cheesy noodles. That's what the cooks are eating back there, nine times out of ten :)


I have no kids, just hate it when an unruly child dampers my dining experience. We had it happen at Vietnam Kitchen a few weeks ago. Of course they don't have a kids menu so the parents were trying to come up with something for the kitchen to make for the kids. Why didn't they bring something? The servers' English wasn't the greatest so that made the problem worse. Whatever they decided on the kids apparently didn't like and proceeded to throw a fit. The parents just sat there like nothing was happening. For some reason most parents kids' hissy fits don't annoy them as much as everyone else.

On a related note, I do think it is awesome that parents are exposing their children to something other than chicken nuggets and french fries. I think adventurous eating should be encouraged at an early age. There is no easier way to learn about and appreciate a culture than through food, but going to a ethnic place and ordering chicken nuggets "aint right".
"The idea is to eat well and not die from it-for the simple reason that that would be the end of your eating." - Jim Harrison

https://www.facebook.com/Louisville-Eat ... 129849554/
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Eliza W » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:34 pm

Actually, decent parents are more bothered by the bad behavior of their children than are strangers.

My children dine out. They sit at the table, eat, and keep their voices down. If someone is unruly, one of us escorts them out. It's not difficult.
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Tina M » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:37 pm

Eliza W wrote:Actually, decent parents are more bothered by the bad behavior of their children than are strangers.

My children dine out. They sit at the table, eat, and keep their voices down. If someone is unruly, one of us escorts them out. It's not difficult.


This. Thank you. I've been struggling with how to respond.
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Kyle L » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:39 pm

On a related note, I do think it is awesome that parents are exposing their children to something other than chicken nuggets and french fries. I think adventurous eating should be encouraged at an early age. There is no easier way to learn about and appreciate a culture than through food, but going to a ethnic place and ordering chicken nuggets "aint right".


It's more about getting children acclimated to dinning out in public rather their own kitchen table. I'm not saying going to an ethic place and ordering Grilled Cheese is expressive towards having one expand their tastes. A child must feel comfortable in their surroundings before diving into unfamiliar waters. At least grilled cheese and chicken nuggets have a culinary "security blanket" for the kid. From there, they are able to branch out in a more open environment. Be it socially or on the menu.
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Nimbus Couzin » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:49 am

My 7 yr. old won't be going to any fancy restaurants any time soon. And yes, when we do go out, he'll make more noise and cause more commotion than your average 35 yr old diner. Guess what? We live in a city, and a community. We're all different. Some diners have special needs. I remember a recent case where a handicapped individual was asked to leave (this is on Bardstown Rd.) because he was "disturbing" other customers.

Everybody must maintain a certain level of understanding that not everyone in our community is a perfect diner. If you want perfection, stay at home and master the art of perfection.

When you go out, you get an experience. Part of it is the food, part of it is interacting with your community. Some interactions and experiences will be better than others.

In short, Chill..........

(What do they say in "Where the Wild Things Are?" I think Max says "Let the Wild Rumpus Begin." I agree with Max)...

And if you're feeling bummed, at least you're not on a 14 hour plane ride from Asia next to a crying baby......

Oh, and if it is a big issue, why the heck not just ask to be re-seated? Sure it is a pain, but if the kid is more of a pain than standing up and walking across the room, then you're either just lazy or you have other problems. That's my two cents.....(I think I relate better to kids than adults )
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by JustinHammond » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:40 am

Eliza W wrote:Actually, decent parents are more bothered by the bad behavior of their children than are strangers.

My children dine out. They sit at the table, eat, and keep their voices down. If someone is unruly, one of us escorts them out. It's not difficult.


That makes perfect sense. I'm seeing all the crappy parents who let their kids act unruly. All the good parents have their kids outside or in the restroom teaching them how to act properly.

Nimbus Couzin wrote:When you go out, you get an experience. Part of it is the food, part of it is interacting with your community. Some interactions and experiences will be better than others


You might not mind a screaming kid when dining out, but I don't want it as part of my dining experience. If I was at your place I wouldn't mind it as much. You promote your place as kid friendly, you even have a play area.

What about a screaming kid in a movie theatre, a drunk using excessive profanity, is that part of the experience? Maybe, but the customer acting civIl shouldn't have to go out of their way to have a decent experience. The parent should quite the child and the business owner should quite or throw out the drunk.

Nimbus Couzin wrote:
Oh, and if it is a big issue, why the heck not just ask to be re-seated? Sure it is a pain, but if the kid is more of a pain than standing up and walking across the room, then you're either just lazy or you have other problems.


I see it as the parent being too lazy to raise their child properly. As Eliza stated, if her child is acting up she takes care of the situation so it doesn't bother other people, which I think is the proper way to handle the situation.
"The idea is to eat well and not die from it-for the simple reason that that would be the end of your eating." - Jim Harrison

https://www.facebook.com/Louisville-Eat ... 129849554/
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Mike Hardin » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:57 am

Eliza W wrote:Actually, decent parents are more bothered by the bad behavior of their children than are strangers.


We took our 2 and a half y.o. son to Pat's with us for my birthday and I thought he did ok. JUST ok. When we left, the people next to us complimented us on how well-behaved he was. I hope that means we're decent parents. :D
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Carla G » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:22 am

My ex-husband (the restaurant manager)'s best contribution to raising our daughter Sarah was to teach her early on how to behave and NOT behave in a restaurant. When we dined in his restaurant he was adamant about her behavior (for obvious reasons). She learned early to take into consideration the viewpoint of the server as well as other diners and not be so egocentric about having 'ALL MY NEEDS MET RIGHT NOW!" By the time she was 6 we could take her anyplace and never worry about her behavior.
One of my ex's best lines to her (bless him) was "You say you want to be treated as an adult, here's your chance to show us you can act like one." Then, as long as she behaved, she could order anything off the menu she wanted. Act up and it was chicken fingers again.
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Re: LEO/LHB Industry Standard: Fed and not heard?

by Tim Whalen » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:23 am

Kids misbehave usually when they are someplace they don't want to be just like the rest of us. I'd take my son, when he was four or five, to Jack Fry's to get the best hamburger in town. Maybe it was because he spent so much time with me, but he knew it was a treat and behaved because I would tell him that it was a "big boy" kind of place.
The way biz is right now, I don't think anybody would turn down a bus load of three-year-olds if they pulled up in front of their place. Be happy if anybody, including families with small children, wants to eat at your restaurant.
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