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Phil Gissen

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White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Phil Gissen » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:36 am

I am sorry, but I must express my vituperative opinion:
When I began drinking wine at 16 I began with sweet Rieslings, Moselles, and Muscatos with all food and at all occasions. Then, as my palette progressed I did start drinking White Zinfandel. Eventually I became accustomed to an oakey California Chardonnay. A friend in the restaurant business introduced me to reds and my tastes now favor dusty, barnyard red wines.

It is the same with food. As a kid, all I would eat was pizza, hamburger, and steak from anywhere as long as I was hungry. As my palette progressed I became accustomed to more creative culinary morsels and I LEARNED to appreciate good cooking. Yet, I became able to discern a good hamburger from one at McDonalds, and a good pizza from one at Pizza Hut, and a good steak from one at Sizzlers. Since this is a food and restaurant forum, doesn't it rest upon us to educate the uninitiated to the world of good wine and good food. It doesn't always rest on individual likes and dislikes. There is the matter of what is good taste and what is bad taste. Simply put, A White Zinfandel is not as good as an aged Brunello. A meal at Outback is not going to be as good as a meal at Baxter Street Station. By the way, they are both in the same price range. Sorry.
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Kyle L

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Kyle L » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:25 am

I don't see your point in this, Phil. Really, I do not. You've obviously stated your distaste for chains and a preference to indies in other threads repeatedly; attacking other people personal choices. I do not see a thing wrong with "opening" other people's eyes to new culinary experiences. I do see a problem with people attacking others choices because they view them as substandard to their own. If one shows people new dining choices , then fine. But, you can NOT sit and tell me your preference is better than mine. Stop being omniscient.
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Robin Garr

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Robin Garr » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:26 pm

Kyle, I like your response. Phil, with all respect, I share a lot of your tastes, but I try not to be a snob about it.

Let's try not to let this topic turn into a train wreck, folks!

Kyle L wrote:I don't see your point in this, Phil. Really, I do not. You've obviously stated your distaste for chains and a preference to indies in other threads repeatedly; attacking other people personal choices. I do not see a thing wrong with "opening" other people's eyes to new culinary experiences. I do see a problem with people attacking others choices because they view them as substandard to their own. If one shows people new dining choices , then fine. But, you can NOT sit and tell me your preference is better than mine. Stop being omniscient.
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Phil Gissen

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Phil Gissen » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:36 pm

I may still love you if you drink a White Zin, I just won't respect your taste in wine.

Don't worry Robin, this will be my last post on Hot Bytes.
"The Sea Was Angry That Day, My Friends, like an Old Man Trying to send Back Soup in a Deli."
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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Robin Garr » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:41 pm

Phil Gissen wrote:Don't worry Robin, this will be my last post on Hot Bytes.

May the wind always be at your back, Phil.
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Mark Head

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Mark Head » Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:16 pm

Phil Gissen wrote:I may still love you if you drink a White Zin, I just won't respect your taste in wine.

Don't worry Robin, this will be my last post on Hot Bytes.


What about lime Kool Aid and bologna on white?


BTW....there are some nice Tavels out there for those interested in tasty rose's. Great with a turkey sandwich.
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David Lange

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by David Lange » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:39 pm

Wonder what Phil's problem is? Snob is an understatement. But you know what they say about Milwaukee.
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Adam Smith

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Adam Smith » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:54 pm

What a ridiculous thread. It may as well have been titled,"I'm better than you,"

Seriously, why would anyone care where or what anyone else eats? My mom loves lima beans, I hate them. Do I think she doesn't know what she's talking about, or that based on her liking lima beans that anything else she like I'll hate? No. We're all grown ups here and can make our own dining choices. Please give me your opinion and I'll give you mine but don't tell me what my opinion should be.
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Robin Garr

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Robin Garr » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:39 pm

Adam Smith wrote:My mom loves lima beans, I hate them. Do I think she doesn't know what she's talking about, or that based on her liking lima beans that anything else she like I'll hate? No. We're all grown ups here and can make our own dining choices. Please give me your opinion and I'll give you mine but don't tell me what my opinion should be.

Heathen! Lima beans are da bomb! :D

(Seriously, Adam, good points. I won't hold Phil to his promise if he decides not to keep it, but I can't help wondering WTH ... )
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Matthew D

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Matthew D » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:51 pm

Phil needs to read this. The idea of taste is very much socially constructed. The idea of "better taste" is very much determined by those with power. Phil's post did little more than illustrate that we all have biased views of taste (and the world). The key is to both see and understand that such biases exist. Phil failed that point.
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Matt F

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Matt F » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:48 pm

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

~Tom Waits
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Marsha L.

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Marsha L. » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:12 pm

HAHA! I love "Dramatic Squirrel"!

Phil, don't go away mad! I love your contributions even more than I love "Dramatic Squirrel".
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Nimbus Couzin

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Nimbus Couzin » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:48 pm

I guess I'll take Phil's side on this one.

White Zin is crap. Everybody knows that. When someone comes to my shop and asks for it, I say I'm sorry, but we don't carry that, can I offer you a Chardonnay or whatever.....Just like when they come and ask for a Michelob Ultra. Sorry, we don't carry that, the lightest beer we have is a Dortmunder Gold from Great Lakes, brewed in Ohio.

Some chains carry decent grub, but why settle for decent when you can get good or great. AND - more importantly- when you can support a local business? I think he was saying that we - as foodies - should be spokesman for indies and for not accepting "ok/decent/mediocre" food. We should be pushing the envelope.

Well, that's how I took his post, and I agree.

p.s. We're all different, and we all have our own weird likes or dislikes. By all means go where you want. But in the coffee biz, i'm always trying to get everyone in town to raise standards, get better coffees, choose good roasters, serve coffee fresh, keep equipment clean and well maintained. It helps us all. I did similar when I was in the microbrew industry. The exact same applies to food. We need to keep raising the bar. It all depends on your level of passion. Some people just want a meal. Some people truly want a great meal and want to help our community have higher overall quality, and an even greater selection.

Let's keep pushing the bar higher. Heck push the chains too. But they aren't the answer.

Cheers...

nimbus
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Roger A. Baylor

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Roger A. Baylor » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:27 pm

Right on, brother Nimbus.
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Robin Garr

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Re: White Zin vs. Real Wine;Chains vs. Real Restaurants

by Robin Garr » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:42 am

Nimbus Couzin wrote:I guess I'll take Phil's side on this one.

I'm not sure you are, Nimbus. You (and Roger, and I) feel similarly I think. But we want to lead. Phil's post came across as arguing that he wants to push. It makes a difference.
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