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Americano

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Paul W

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Americano

by Paul W » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:01 pm

Had a great lunch at Havana Rumba today (man, that Cubano sandwich is so good) but i was a little suprised when i ordered an Americano and got drip coffee. I dont see Americano's offered by many restaurants here so i was glad to see it. I just recently came back from Spain, drank alot of them while i was there and developed a liking for them. Maybe some of the coffee experts can chime in here...is it common for people in the US to serve drip coffee as an Americano? I know they arent all that different in taste...but they are different. If people arent familiar with it...an Americano is Espresso with hot water. Tastes like an extra strong coffee...or i guess an extra weak Espresso. Anyone have a favorite place in town to get them? Had one from Heine Bros the other day and thought it was just OK.

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Re: Americano

by Robin Garr » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:05 pm

paul w wrote:Anyone have a favorite place in town to get them? Had one from Heine Bros the other day and thought it was just OK.


Heine Bros. does make them correctly - an expresso lungo and super-hot water from the espresso machine in equal proportions - so the issue may be that you don't care for Heine's espresso beans, which they do roast themselves.

Bear in mind that the name of the drink itself is the Italians' cheeky way of laughing at Americans for loving weak coffee.
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Re: Americano

by Paul W » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:11 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
paul w wrote:Anyone have a favorite place in town to get them? Had one from Heine Bros the other day and thought it was just OK.


Heine Bros. does make them correctly - an expresso lungo and super-hot water from the espresso machine in equal proportions - so the issue may be that you don't care for Heine's espresso beans, which they do roast themselves.

Bear in mind that the name of the drink itself is the Italians' cheeky way of laughing at Americans for loving weak coffee.


oh yeah, im sure they make them the right way at Heine Bros...i was just saying i wasnt that fond of the one i had there. not trying to talk smack about Heine Brothers at all...i'd say that they're my coffee place of choice here in town.

yes im aware that there's a bit a making fun at americans with this...but i dont really care...sometimes i want something stronger than coffee, weaker than esspresso.
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Re: Americano

by Robin Garr » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:14 pm

paul w wrote:oh yeah, im sure they make them the right way at Heine Bros...i was just saying i wasnt that fond of the one i had there. not trying to talk smack about Heine Brothers at all...i'd say that they're my coffee place of choice here in town.

yes im aware that there's a bit a making fun at americans with this...but i dont really care...sometimes i want something stronger than coffee, weaker than esspresso.


Of course you're talking to a guy who recently got back from 2 1/2 weeks in Italy, so I'm hard to please. Hmm ... have you tried Caffe Classico? I haven't had an Americano there, but they make excellent espresso drinks. And of course, some of the other top spots for artisan coffee, including Sunergos and Jackson's, would be worth a shot. An espresso shot, I mean.
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the short and long of it

by Matthew Landan » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:25 pm

An Americano is best made to taste. It should never be drip coffee, or french press or anything other than a shot of espresso with water added.

Here at Derby City Espresso I always ask my clients how 'American' they want it, meaning how much water they want added.

Some people want a short shot (1.5-2 oz.) with 4.5-6 oz. water added. Some prefer a long shot 3oz. with up to 12oz of water added.

Personally I would rather have french press or vacuum pot coffee than an Americano. But I just like straight double and triple ristretto espresso shots.

If I want long coffee I go to these other methods for preparation.
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Re: the short and long of it

by Paul W » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:33 pm

Matthew Crow wrote:Here at Derby City Espresso I always ask my clients how 'American' they want it, meaning how much water they want added.

Some people want a short shot (1.5-2 oz.) with 4.5-6 oz. water added. Some prefer a long shot 3oz. with up to 12oz of water added.


Hey Matt, It's Paul from Whole Foods. That seems like a good way to do it. I'll have to get down there and try yours. Hope everything is going well with the new venture.
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Too Long Shots

by David Lange » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:14 pm

Matthew, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you regarding your shot lengths. According to the SCAA (Specialty Coffee Association of America), an espresso shot should be 7-9 grams of coffee and result in 1 1/2 ounces brewed in 18-24 seconds. Thus a ristretto or "short" shot should be only 1 ounce using the same amount of coffee.

A longo or "long" shot should yield 2 ounces using the same amount of coffee. When in Italy last summer, I visited about 50 cafes and had various shots of espresso. And all were made exactly the same. Talk about a passion for coffee!!

So an Americano or Caffe Americano would use a double shot and 3 ounces of hot water from the espresso brewer, always pouring the water over the espresso.

For a real treat try a double machiato. Not that sweet, caramalized bastardized concoction that you find at Starbucks. But a double espresso topped with a small dollop of rich foam. Now that's coffee Nirvana!!
Robin is right when he said that is Americano are something you DON'T order in Italy. You will get a roll of the eyes and a stymied snicker from the barista.
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by Jay M. » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:20 pm

...
Last edited by Jay M. on Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Too Long Shots

by Matthew Landan » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:06 am

David Lange wrote:Matthew, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you regarding your shot lengths. According to the SCAA (Specialty Coffee Association of America), an espresso shot should be 7-9 grams of coffee and result in 1 1/2 ounces brewed in 18-24 seconds. Thus a ristretto or "short" shot should be only 1 ounce using the same amount of coffee.




David, I have no problem with that definition.

I only pull doubles (and triples) here at DCE. That means 13 (or 20g in the case of a tripple) or so grams of coffee resulting in 1.5-3 oz of espresso in 23-30 seconds (from the moment I turn the pump on, not the moment the shot first appears).

So according to Coffeegeek.com I'm not doing it exactly in an orthodox fashion when I pull the ristretto to 2 oz.:


"Most double espresso shots are 2.5 to 3 ounces using 14 or more grams of coffee grounds. A ristretto uses the same volume (or dose) of grinds, but the operator pours only about 1.5 ounces (ore less) of espresso in the normal brewing time of 25 to 30 seconds. A ristretto is a richer beverage, much more intense, but also much harder to brew properly. There is a fine balance between stalling an espresso machine and making a perfect ristretto."

- Coffeegeek.com - http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/mark ... 20-2004#16


I find the best coffee is the coffee my customers like the most. Some people here prefer it longer, some shorter. As a specialty coffee retailer I walk the fine line between educating my customers about coffee in its traditional forms and appeasing their taste buds.

Just because I like my espresso as a 'double ristretto' doesn't mean everyone else should or will. One of the best bits about being in this business is making people drinks that please them. If I only made drinks that please me I wouldn't serve decaf, I wouldn't serve drip coffee and I wouldn't even offer flavored syrups.

But I offer all of the above because my clients request them and I aim to please. I am in the hospitality business as well as the coffee biz. My espresso bar is a lounge and an art gallery and a music venue. The coffee can be as good as gold but the trick is to make people feel at home.

Creating a unique atmosphere with a homey vibe and offering personal service to each and every customer that walks in the door from 6am to 9pm is a challenge. Especially when you have as diverse a customer base as I'm developing - my regulars run the gamut from construction workers to hotel clerks, painters and performance artists to strippers and sk8ters. Making each and every one of them feel comfortable and offering them an individual and personalized experience is what sets me apart from every other coffee shop downtown.
Last edited by Matthew Landan on Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Haymarket
331 E. Market St.

Since I came down from Oregon, there's a lesson or two I've learned
Oh, oh the Pride of Cucamonga, of, of silver apples in the sun,
Yes, it's me, I'm the Pride of Cucamonga, I can see golden forests in the sun.
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by John Mayhugh » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:28 am

"The best coffee is the coffee my customers like the most." Sounds like you have the right idea about how to run a hospitality business. I don't drink too much coffee and am not downtown regularly, but I'm going to make a special effort to stop by and support your business.
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Hospitality First

by David Lange » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:08 am

Matthew I totally agree with you regarding your philosophy of "The best coffee is the coffee my customers like the most." As a retailer that is what is best for your customers. They are always right and should come first.

My problem is going into various coffee cafes and for a shot of espresso, and receiving anywhere from 1 1/2 ounces to 3 1/2 ounces for a single shot. There is no consistantcy in the finished product. And a 1 1/2 oz. shot is not going to be the same as a 3 1/2 ounce shot. So individuals become confused as to what is the "perfect" shot of espresso. That is why the SCAA has named standards to make sure that all are playing on the same field.

If a barista wants to vary from that, then it should be the choice of his customers to make that variation.

In my next article in "Food and Dining" magazine, I plan to become a "secret shopper" to evaluate espresso shots and drink sizes of various coffee outlets in the Louisville area.

Matthew, keep up your great attitude and passion for great coffee. And letting your customers come first.
David Lange
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by Roger A. Baylor » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:34 am

Thanks to all of you for this most informative thread. I've learned more here than in all the chain postings combined (and I understand that it's partially my fault).

The point here is this: Anyone reading in the business or who wants to be, bring this expertise to downtown New Albany and stay open enough hours in the day so that the target audience has the opportunity to visit and enjoy the ristrettos and espressos. We're simply not going to succeed in reviving this burg without a real coffee place that keeps real hours.

Sermon over. Out. Perhaps too many shots off Tommie's home model this morning.
Roger A. Baylor
Beer Director at Pints&union (New Albany)
Digital Editor at Food & Dining Magazine
New Albany, Indiana
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by Matthew Landan » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:49 am

maybe we can expand over there next year... if i can make this one work downtown!

We can call it the New Albanian Coffee Co after you guys and in your honor!

I love your place. I used to work with Shawn Vest at Whole Foods and he turned me onto you. I just wish I could get out there more often for growlers and Belgians.

He brought me one the other day that was nearly an imperial stout. I forget the name of the beer but it was awsome!

You rock the house.
I learned more about beer from Shawn than I can express and I know he credits you for teaching him everything he knows!

Let me knwo if there is anything I can ever do to support you guys and what you do over there at NABC & Sport's Time.
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Since I came down from Oregon, there's a lesson or two I've learned
Oh, oh the Pride of Cucamonga, of, of silver apples in the sun,
Yes, it's me, I'm the Pride of Cucamonga, I can see golden forests in the sun.
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by Roger A. Baylor » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:53 am

Well, thanks. I'm flattered. I think Shawn and TJ are doing well with the pizza place in Charlestown. We're pulling for him.

We need to get together, and I've been meaning to come over and drop in. My schedule has been complicated by elective rotator cuff repair surgery (can't drive yet, and no bike). When I come, I'll bring beer ... and we can discuss a few things. I'd like to do a better job with coffee in our own place, and I'd like to work on matters downtown.

I'll make a serious effort to get there soon.
Roger A. Baylor
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Digital Editor at Food & Dining Magazine
New Albany, Indiana
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by David Clancy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:24 pm

Roger A. Baylor wrote:Well, thanks. I'm flattered. I think Shawn and TJ are doing well with the pizza place in Charlestown. We're pulling for him.

We need to get together, and I've been meaning to come over and drop in. My schedule has been complicated by elective rotator cuff repair surgery (can't drive yet, and no bike). When I come, I'll bring beer ... and we can discuss a few things. I'd like to do a better job with coffee in our own place, and I'd like to work on matters downtown.

I'll make a serious effort to get there soon.
Count me in Roger!
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