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Marsha L.

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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Marsha L. » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:11 am

Well, I kept working full-time at the bank when I started school, and attended class on nights and weekends. So there was a LOT of homework, and often times we'd be learning a chapter at 9:30 Friday night only to turn around and be tested on it the very next morning at 8 AM - which meant going home and actually cramming until 2 or 3 A.M. But if you're going to go to classes in the daytime, I imagine the homework load would be a little lighter because you'll be attending your classes more often (instead of having to cram a whole week's worth of Spanish or Garde Manger Theory into one marathon session).
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Reagan H

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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Reagan H » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:34 am

Re: Mentoring: you will, regardless of your time at Sullivan, start out at the "bottom," often with minimal supervision or mentoring. Your time there is your mentor, you will learn what you need to learn from the guy grilling, as well as the guy cleaning the grill (even if it is you!). Your first forays may not be up close and personal with someone teaching you the ropes, and most kitchens don't afford that time anyway; again, the ropes and their burns are your mentors.

Don't get too hung up on finding that person(s). I thought I did, and went through more than one disappointment when they didn't live up to their game. It is all the little things that teach you to cook, and doing all the little things yourself, over and over, not just someone else.

Re: "challenging" your classes, yes you can bypass, but the problem with Sullivan is that, while they might have told Leah that it hadn't been done before, they might have said that because they had no idea of who has been allowed to do what. Their bypass program is NOT set for all classes, and one administrator's word is useless against another- they don't even talk or refer to each other. So, while you can easily take a bypass for Culinary Math, Spanish, etc, (and yes, you do have to pay for the bypass tests,) I would NOT walk in assuming you can bypass anything. Their administration is so inconsistent and subjective that... well, I'd like to keep this clean.

Re: Homework: the homework is NOTHING. (Like Marsha said, the turnaround for Nights and Weekends is quicker than for Days, but still). The time it takes to actually learn these things, and to actually teach your hands to move the way you need to, is not included in your homework. It is this time that you carve into your schedule that can affect the rest of your life.
You can get straight A's (I did) and walk away without anything hammered into your head (I hope that I have something imbedded in there by now). Pretty much what I said earlier, if you want to really absorb, you have to spend alot of your own time, really just learning.

Everybody is making great points, points that I wish I had heard before I invested my savings, my job(s), my heart, and my youth. Your partner is an unwitting participant in this, and it is good that you are talking to your wife in this step, her support is paramount to your success.

For those who earned their bones before me, I don't usually "brag" or bring up my eons at S. Having seen many who manage to matriculate, I totally understand the chip against grads (and the many non-grads) and have been lucky to have worked with folks who are willing to overlook the blue bandana and realize that I really do just wanna learn. Not every place is going to be like that. The only way to earn your stripes, er bones, is to get in the pit. And like many have already said, it really helps when you are getting paid (even if peanuts, well, I like peanuts, and cake :) ).

While there may not be an opening now in your kitchen, believe me there will be, there always is. And while the chef and other cooks may not have time to hold your hands, we do recognize "the passion" in others, and you will get noticed, if you are willing to get your hands dirty.

To answer your fundamental question from my years there, I too was in a (secure, well-paying, long-earned) job that was going to eventually kill me. Sullivan served as my transition from that world into the (insert antonyms here) world that is food. If you are already in a restaurant environment, and your wife is along for the ride, take the prep and dish and ANY jobs you can get in the kitchen. After your own time frame, like Marsha said, then decide if a higher education is going to help you move further with your goals. My True Thing: follow your passion, remember your family priorities, and follow your passion. In that order.

Good luck!
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Marsha L. » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:50 am

And Chris, to be brutally honest - try to find a kitchen job in a restaurant where you HAVEN'T worked front-of-the-house. The hardened pirates that run the engine room might never forgive you for crossing over the pass, and will throw obstacles in your way just to make your life miserable.

Now, that might sound like a little bit of hyperbole, but I know what I'm talking about. There may be some kitchen somewhere where the cooks would welcome you coming from the front desk into their tribe with open arms, but chances are pretty good that the bastards would be stabbing you in the back as soon as they got those open arms around you. Sounds harsh, I know. Don't worry - one day you'll BE one of those pirates :wink:
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Chris Atchley

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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Chris Atchley » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:49 pm

It's funny that you say that because, I am getting that vibe from them. There is a definite attitude of, us and them, and never the twain shall meet.

I haven't spoken to anyone in the kitchen about my desire to cook or to go to Sullivan but i have talked to some of my managers about it and they are supportive.
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Chris Atchley » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:54 pm

Also, I don't mind paying my dues, I wouldn't have it any other way, but it would be nice to come to work and learn without having to "watch your back".
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by RonnieD » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:02 pm

VERY early on I made the transition from F.O.H. to kitchen and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I started out as a server, but I was a pretty miserable excuse for one, so the owner pulled me aside one day during a particularly weak service and said "you ever worked in the kitchen before?" I said "not really." He said "Put this apron on and go back there and peel some potatoes." True story. 15 years later I am still in the business and very glad to be. I guess I wasn't F.O.H. long enough, or noticeable enough, to earn the scorn of the kitchen staff, but I have seen that happen. There definitely can be an "us v. them" mentality and it would be unfortunate for you to fall victim to it and be jaded right out of the gate. Marsha's advice is solid.
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Marsha L.

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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Marsha L. » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:03 pm

Just pick a different restaurant. There are many to choose from.

And as far as experienced cooks looking for work, that does not necessarily equal no jobs for inexperienced cooks. Those experienced cooks are expensive by the hour in comparison, and they won't be looking for basic prep work like you will be when you start out. They are looking for that saute job, or sous chef position and it will be many moons before they give in and go back to grunt work. Also, the managers that are hiring for basic prep jobs often prefer someone green that they can train themselves, and on top of that you'll be cheaper to pay than those experienced guys who are set in their ways from working in another kitchen.

It actually gets harder and harder to find a kitchen job as your salary increases. You can move around a lot while you get your training, but when you start making more than $10 an hour, you want to find somewhere you click with and stay there for a while.
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Stephen D

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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Stephen D » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:12 pm

The CIA offers a flexible program called 'prochef.' It might just be the route for you, check it out.

Also, try your best to learn from a chef, not a KM. It makes all the difference.
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Alan H » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:40 pm

True, but in some regards organizational skills are stronger in a corporate background as a K.M., but never creativity, only a chef has the gift.
As for the passion of wanting to expand your horizons in the kitchen, please do not hold back, you and only you will feel if this is what is in your future.
If it is in your blood you will feel it
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A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Chris Atchley » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:57 pm

Stephen D wrote:The CIA offers a flexible program called 'prochef.' It might just be the route for you, check it out.

Also, try your best to learn from a chef, not a KM. It makes all the difference.


The prochef program looks interesting. Do you have any experience with it? How does it work?
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Ellen P » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:15 pm

Different food route...Food science degree...
I was working in restaurants and lucked out getting an entry level job at KFC R&D. After 7 years, I found this wonderful job at Brown-Forman R&D - former supplier with KFC had moved onto to this company which helped me.
I don't have a food science degree (or any kind of science degree) but the work is so interesting.
When I was at KFC, there was discussion then of some of us taking an on-line course through Kansas State. That didn't happen. (I would have taken UofL's food science program but they dropped that in favor of UK years ago. There are some classes available through the Speed school that a former BF R&D vp teaches, I believe.)
Now people I work with are getting their masters' in food science through Kansas State, on-line.
There are so many wonderful food, beverage, and restaurant businesses throughout the world. Quite a few in the Louisville area. And if not actually in R&D or processing or QA, etc., technical sales can be a wonderful job.
I do belong to IFT - International Food Technologist. Check out their web site. It's really fascinating work.
(Also, if you could intern at a food/beverage company or start at an entry level job, these companies have tuition reimbursement. One guy we lost to Starbucks R&D last year was even scheduled to take culinary courses at Sullivan.)
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Sue H » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:15 pm

I'm strongly considering going to culinary school at Sullivan, and was wondering if those that have been to Sullivan, or any other school could share some wisdom, or stories about their experiences.



Although I have never went to Sullivan, I have plenty of friends who have. I really think the culinary school is equivalent to a scam. I base my decision on how they lure people into the school, how they charge, what they charge for, and what is actually taught there. If you want to be any type of culinary chef, go work for any number of the great chefs in this city and ask questions and learn from them. You will probably learn more if you ask enough questions and you will earn money while doing something you love opposed to paying out and being in debt for the next several years.

In my personal opinion the Culinary school there is a rip-off and have often asked "How does Al Sullivan sleeps at night?" I always get the same answer, "With lots of money under his mattress!"

Good Luck with whatever your decision may be!
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Leah S » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:26 pm

Maybe we should start making a distinction between the hot foods side and the pastry side. Before I went to Sullivan I talked with a few chefs who all said the same thing. "Nah, you can learn what you need to know in a kitchen. Wait! You're interested in pastry? Yeah, go to school for that."
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Marsha L.

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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Marsha L. » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:34 pm

Leah s wrote:Maybe we should start making a distinction between the hot foods side and the pastry side. Before I went to Sullivan I talked with a few chefs who all said the same thing. "Nah, you can learn what you need to know in a kitchen. Wait! You're interested in pastry? Yeah, go to school for that."


Which is what I said in one of my first posts. It's really hard to learn pastry on the fly in a kitchen. Why? Because there's only one pastry chef in most restaurant kitchens!
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Re: How many have gone to culinary school?

by Matthew D » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:38 pm

I know nothing about culinary school, so I'm going to stay out of that advice-giving.

I'd just like to comment on two topics that seem to be moving throughout this thread.

1. Sullivan's a for-profit university. This, in itself, is not a bad thing (in this particular situation). I would, though, consider how this status as a for-profit university affect activities such as financial aid proposals.

2. On a related note, I'd be very leery of financial aid pitches. From my perspective (a smidge of background in academic admissions) the purpose of the financial aid officer is to tell you how you can afford a particular education not if you can afford that education. Financial aid very much operates on the "sign now, consider the consequences later" perspective. This is coming from a person with mid 5-digit undergraduate debt, debt I try to "come to terms with" by dividing it over 10 years and not 4 (getting paid for the MA and PhD eases the mind a bit, but, alas, it doesn't change the bottom debt line).
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