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Rick G

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Double Standard

by Rick G » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:10 pm

I have been a follower of this forum for quite some time and have enjoyed it a lot. It is very informative and very entertaining. It seems though if you go back over the forums long history you see an obivious dislike of chain restaurants and a very strong push to support local restaurants. I agree to definitely support our local restaurants and believe in the long run you will receive better service and better food. So I for one support the independents. Now!!! It seems the forum has a different opinion about other chains. I have seen a lot of forum readers speak very highly about chains like Costco (Food and Wine), Krogers (Liquor and Wine), Whole Foods (Food and Wine)...etc... These are definitely the high end chains. What about places like Old Town Liquors, Party Mart. Lotsa Pasta..etc... I know people in the forum speak very highly of these places but I seem to see a slowly shifting emphasis toward the "Big Chains" just by what I have read in the forum. Why should these independents be treated any different than an independent restaurant. I'm not saying they aren't, but the more these chains are being mentioned the more people will venture out to try them. I'm not saying that's wrong. I'm just saying give the little guy his dues to. As I said, I am a big supporter of independent business and we are slowly becoming a chain world. Double Standard??? I don't know. Just food for thought.
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Re: Double Standard

by Robin Garr » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:20 pm

Rick G wrote:It seems the forum has a different opinion about other chains. I have seen a lot of forum readers speak very highly about chains like Costco (Food and Wine), Krogers (Liquor and Wine), Whole Foods (Food and Wine)...etc... These are definitely the high end chains. What about places like Old Town Liquors, Party Mart. Lotsa Pasta..etc...


Fair question, Rick.

Speaking only for myself, I'd say that I <i>prefer</i> to get my specialty foods at Lotsa Pasta, Burger's and Doll's, my natural foods at Rainbow Blossom and Doll's (Green River Cattle Co. steaks), my seafood at Highland or Seafood Connection and my wine at Old Town, Gemelli, St. Matthews, Wine Rack, even regional semi-chain Party Source.

But in contrast with most chain restaurants - which I shun because in my opinion few of them offer the kind of food quality and service I prefer AND because the ownership and ultimate recipient of the profits is not local - I do give <i>some</i> of my food-buying business to Whole Foods in particular because the quality and selection is there. I do find that I'm shopping there less lately, partly because I think it's slipped a little since the opening and partly because I've learned that its CEO is virulently anti-union, whereas I'm virulently pro-union. What I try to do now is buy things at Whole Foods that I can't get anywhere else - some of the more exotic Italian cheeses that Lotsa Pasta doesn't carry, for one specific example. But I won't buy anything at Whole Foods that I can get at Lotsa Pasta, Rainbow Blossom, Highland Fish, Seafood Connection, Doll's, etc., because I want to support the local indies and because "food miles" also make a difference. Why pay the energy costs needed for WF to fly lamb chops from New Zealand when Rainbow Blossom will sell me lamb chops from Bardstown? And, for that matter, why buy Chelsea's free-range eggs at WF when I can pass my money for the same eggs through Paul's?

It's really an ad hoc decision thing, but the bottom line is that I don't feel <i>too</i> bad about buying selectively at Whole Foods as long as I limit my buying to rarities that I can't get anywhere else?

Personally, I haven't said much in favor of Kroger's wine shop. I like Neil Wellinghurst and admire what he's doing out there, but the bottom line is that its selection is limited and largely mass-market, and there's nothing I've seen there that would prompt me to drive three times farther than I have to go from here to Old Town or the Wine Market or Gemelli or Wine Rack or St. Matthews Wine Co.

As for Costco, I joined out of curiosity, and because it's the anti-Sam's Club, but it doesn't really work well for me because it's too far out in the 'burbs and because its big-lots inventory isn't useful for a family of two. I also find their policy of checking baskets on the way out offensive, and the wine shop of little use to me; they'll have excellent prices on a handful of limited-production, high-end wines that I rarely buy even at reduced price; the rest is mass-market and uninteresting.
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by Charles W. » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:15 am

I also find their policy of checking baskets on the way out offensive

I thought they did this because they don't do any kind of bagging or packaging of sold items (cutting costs), not because they're particularly suspicious. I find it slightly annoying, but figure it is just the way it is in a warehouse store context.

As for the original point of the thread: it has been pointed out more than once that many independent restaurants buy supplies from big chain vendors. In most cases there is no clean line between all local and all chain. There are some things chains do very well. I support my local hardware store as much as possible, but I like the selection and prices at Lowe's, for instance. But when I'm paying $'s for food, especially big $'s, I want to know that a chef prepared it who understands ingredients, seasons, and prepares it with authenticity. I have no attachment to the individually forged adjustable wrench. Economies of scale can be of great benefit to the consumer in many arenas, I don't think an individually prepared dinner is usually one of them.
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by Leah S » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:21 am

Charles, "good answer."

::sounds of hands clapping::
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by Robin Garr » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:24 am

Charles W. wrote:
I also find their policy of checking baskets on the way out offensive

I thought they did this because they don't do any kind of bagging or packaging of sold items (cutting costs), not because they're particularly suspicious. I find it slightly annoying, but figure it is just the way it is in a warehouse store context.


I'm not sure the rationale behind it matters much. Party Source doesn't usually bag for you either, but neither do they check you at the door.

Like you, I find it "slightly annoying," but not enough to keep me from considering Costco strongly for certain purchases in areas in which they excel. If I'm looking for something like a big-screen TV, for instance, I'm sure they would be the place to beat. In other words, I don't like it, <i>whatever the reason is</i>, but it's not a boycott issue.

In general, I agree with your other comments about economies of scale from large suppliers, but that being said - as I've said here so many times before in these discussions - in the restaurant business at least, as the recipient of the proceeds gets further and further away from the front of the house, the more the commitment to quality over profit diminishes.
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by Charles W. » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:36 am

Leah s wrote:Charles, "good answer."

Image


I want to thank my mother . . . without her I wouldn't be here today . . .
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by Steve Magruder » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:43 am

I have to chime in that Lotsa Pasta is a nice shop with all sorts of Italian fare I've never seen anywhere else. All kinds of fresh pasta variants. Strong selection of various things, like balsamic vinegars, olive oils, pasta sauces, etc. It's definitely a must-go shop for those who haven't been there.
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by robert szappanos » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:00 pm

:D :D :D :D :D :D I agree with you Charles :D :D :D :D :D
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by Robin Garr » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:25 pm

robert szappanos wrote::D :D :D :D :D :D I agree with you Charles :D :D :D :D :D


Good for you, Robert. I'm delighted to see that you're signing on to Charles's observation that, and I quote, "But when I'm paying $'s for food, especially big $'s, I want to know that a chef prepared it who understands ingredients, seasons, and prepares it with authenticity. I have no attachment to the individually forged adjustable wrench. Economies of scale can be of great benefit to the consumer in many arenas, I don't think an individually prepared dinner is usually one of them."
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Costco / Sams

by Chris M » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:26 pm

As an FYI....

The reason the warehouse places check the receipts at the door is they don't bag or box, and since the front of the stores are so open, it would be very easy for someone to fill up a cart, mix with the crowd in the front of the store and then wander away with the items.

Keeping down theft is part of how they offer lower prices. YOU pay for every item someone walks out with (steals) through higher prices.

Everyone can check receipts at the door if it saves me 10% on my bill.

While I appreciate the sentiment that you are a law abiding citizen who would never do such a thing, I'm sure you know there are plenty of people out there who would. I think a store has a right to protect itself from theft, especially if they pass the savings along to the customer.
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Re: Costco / Sams

by Robin Garr » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:43 pm

Chris M wrote:Keeping down theft is part of how they offer lower prices. YOU pay for every item someone walks out with (steals) through higher prices.


Okay, Chris, that makes reasonable sense, although I would note that similar considerations apply in many stores that <i>don't</i> recheck you at the door.

Here's a more telling point, though: Check the signs near the exit that "explain" the policy. You won't see a word about what you just said. They have a long, less-than-persuasive explanation that has to do with protecting you against cash-register mistakes. This is obviously false, since the door checkers only give your receipt a very quick glance before marking it off.

Point is, they're lying to their customers.

And if they'll lie about that, what else will they lie about?

I'm not trying to be overly provocative here. I already said I joined Costco and that, while its big-lots offerings are rarely useful to me, I like Costco. But the disconnect between your explanation and their published explanation doesn't make me feel better, it makes me feel worse.

Moreover, they're very good to their employees, and I praise them for that, but they're not much better than Whole Foods when it comes to discouraging union organizing.
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by C. Devlin » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:53 pm

I've always assumed the spiel that the door checks are for the purpose of protecting the customer is their attempt to make the customers not feel as if they're all under suspicion as they walk out the door, which is probably how I'd feel were I confronted with a sign or a person saying they needed to check my cart because I might be stealing something.

"We're doing this to protect you" is blatant nonsense, but I can imagine a bunch of people sitting around a conference table one day trying to come up with a way of notifying customers their carts will be checked that didn't sound confrontational.

"We're doing this to protect our customers" sounds friendlier than, "We're doing this because we don't trust you."
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by MikeG » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:36 pm

Well restaurants are one of the last things in the US that there are still PLENTIFUL options for locally vs chain wise. Therefore it's easier to get by supporting independents vs chains. With a lot of other things it's almost chain or nothing.

As for the checking carts at the door, without fail they go over my cart twice as thoroughly as any one else's. But when you's 6-1 with a shaved head, a long goatee, and and anti-Bush shirt on that's to be expected.
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by Robin Garr » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:12 pm

MikeG wrote:when you's 6-1 with a shaved head, a long goatee, and an anti-Bush shirt on that's to be expected.


I don't know about the other stuff, but the anti-Bush shirt would probably be a plus at Costco. At Sam's Club, however, it might get you arrested.
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by TP Lowe » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
MikeG wrote:when you's 6-1 with a shaved head, a long goatee, and an anti-Bush shirt on that's to be expected.


I don't know about the other stuff, but the anti-Bush shirt would probably be a plus at Costco. At Sam's Club, however, it might get you arrested.


Geez, Robin - and all this time I thought you were a supporter of our President!
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