Clay Street really goes live for Aug. 23 VOLKSFEST

I think the event sounds like a great time but as others have expressed I wish it were held on a different day. Amongst my friends Brew at the zoo is something we look forward to like children looking forward to Christmas. I would love to attend both but I couldn't imagine doing both events on the same day, I don't think my body could handle it. My curiosity has also been piqued by a few of comments like "I was nearing the end of my patience with Brew at the Zoo over the past few years" so I wondered... Is the zoo hard to work with? What is going on behind the scenes that would lead to the exclusion of bbc and why would you be nearing the end of your patience? As an attendee of Brew at the Zoo I only know that it is a rip roaring good time and I would hate for the event to not include as many great local places as possible.

My curiosity has also been piqued by a few of comments like "I was nearing the end of my patience with Brew at the Zoo over the past few years" so I wondered... Is the zoo hard to work with? What is going on behind the scenes that would lead to the exclusion of bbc and why would you be nearing the end of your patience? As an attendee of Brew at the Zoo I only know that it is a rip roaring good time and I would hate for the event to not include as many great local places as possible.

As an attendee, the biggest issues I have had with Brew at the Zoo in the past are:
1. Food running out after a 1/2 hour of the event opening.
2. 99% of the beer running out after 2 hours of the event opening.

Brew at the Zoo is not a cheap event for someone to attend, and when someone plunks down $35 - $45, the organizers of the event should go out of their way to make sure that things do not run out that early in an event. I know from the brewer's standpoint that you can only give away so much beer, and with the high attendance numbers of BATZ, there is a lot of beer being poured. I've gone to enough beer festivals where things never run out, because the festival buys enough beer from the breweries to cover the event. The zoo does not do much at all to help the breweries re-coup the costs, and as such, they always run out, and early. Two weekends ago, I went to the Great Taste of the Midwest. 6000 attendees, 105 breweries, nobody ran out of beer, and they raise over $50,000 for charity. For a $35 entry fee.

This year, not only do you not have BBC at BATZ, you also have the Friends of the Zoo doing all of the pouring, with brewery reps available to answer questions. I may be off base a bit here, but my guess is that the volunteers that are pouring are not going to know much at all about what they are pouring, which to me defeats a huge point of a beer festival. I go to drink great beer, and to talk to the people making the beer, and who can talk to me about what they are pouring. I've been to several events where they had people who did not know a thing about what they were doing, and it was frustrating for both sides of the table. There is nothing worse than ordering a sample, and then telling the person which bottle/tap to pour from.

I'm sure that I am coming off very negative about the zoo. My issues run only with this particular event. I have a family membership, and with two young children take advantage of using it as much as possible, as well as attending other events at the zoo that are fundraisers. My family and I always have a great time at the zoo, but this is the one event of theirs that I just cannot support. The point of a beer and wine festival are the beers and wines involved, the people who make them, and the people who love them. This event has moved past that point, to a place I'm not really sure what their intentions are.

Todd,
Thanks for the response and thanks for the behind the scenes look into the event. I have been to every one of the BATZ events and I have also suffered through the running out of food and beer issues you mentioned. I agree that those aspects of it stink and now I am a highly concerned about the process of the "Friends of the Zoo doing all of the pouring." I agree completely with your point the people pouring the beer will have no idea what they are pouring. I will still be there as I have already purchased my tickets but if this is ruined by the silly friends of the zoo pouring beer issue I will see you all on Clay Street!

I'm tempted to make a point about the Zoo not really being to blame for the volunteer pouring thing, but although I've heard that they've had a good deal of difficulty with state regs and such, I don't know for sure about the situation.

That's because there has been little communication between the Zoo and NABC -- and that's my point. Perhaps with others, there's a different story, but I feel somewhat out of the loop. There could be many reasons for this, and it's neither a dealbreaker nor the reason for the Volksfest occurring on the same day. And yet, that's part of it.

I'll try to keep it simple. Echoing Todd's coments, the bigger such an event gets, the more it tends to gravitate away from the type of venue during which some semblance of beer education can be attempted. The less beer education, the less utility for us. Currently we have more opportunities to give away beer for charity than there is time, manpower and beer to donate. Speaking personally, the notion of bigtime fests with thousands of people in summer heat, so many that it's hard to get a word across the table, has begun to lose a bit of its luster. I'm starting to favor smaller, more frequent celebrations instead.

Again speaking personally, from the beginning of BATZ, I've felt some level of disconnect, something best summarized by the situation during the first one, when many more tickets were sold than there was beer and food to accommodate (more tickets than we were led to believe would be sold), and we had to race back across the river to grab a couple more kegs and forestall a riot.

This is not to be considered the airing of dirty laundry. As I indicated earlier, we're honoring our commitments (and the ticket paying customers) by both supporting the Zoo and convening for Volksfest. I'm not sure what needs to be done, but one thing I do know is that in the future, I support the unity of local brewers so that we can address these issues (and issues like BBC's exclusion from this year's BATZ) from a position of strength and principle. There's a place for BATZ and an expanded Volksfest in 2009. I believe we'll all sit around a table at some point and figure it out.

I'll be there with the familial unit. Sounds like a good time to me!

Roger you bring up an interesting point with the following quote

"the bigger such an event gets, the more it tends to gravitate away from the type of venue during which some semblance of beer education can be attempted."

Is the point of an event like this to educate beer drinkers? Or is the point of the event more of an opportunity for business owners to provide samples of their good beer and hospitality in an effort to bring in more customers? Or is it as clear cut as that?

Personally speaking I always viewed it as a marketing tool with an ultimate goal of increasing business, a very effective marketing tool as I have purchased something from all of the BATZ participants. Although being in sales may cloud my vision as I always think "what's in it for me/the businesses?" Granted I have learned more about beer from attending BATZ, I never considered that as the point of the event.

Appreciate your thoughts.

No brewery I know is opposed to giving away samples to benefit a worthy cause like the Zoo, but as I noted, the list of requests from worthy causes is so vast that all of them cannot be honored without breaking the bank. I'd estimate that I get a dozen requests like that both big and small each and every month. I try to donate my time when possible, because my time doesn't detract from the bottom line (and that rhymes).

One way to look at it is from the perspective that yes, we get a deduction for donations. To me, there needs to be some tangible way of furthering the craft beer cause apart from simple bookkeeping, so as to complete what I view as a barter. The bigger the fest, the more that means dishing out samples as fast as your arms wll permit, while having zero time to talk about what you're doing or educating about what any of it means.

Yes, that's potentially great for the charity, and lots of fun for the drinkers, but what we often end up with is a sea of drunken humanity. Right or wrong, to me that's playing right back into the swill merchants' plan of operation. As craft brewers, we're nothing if we don't aspire to high ideals. Speaking personally, huge sample fests sometimes threaten those ideals. I'm not proposing anything other than having the sort of forum (here and elsewhere) to talk about it. It's quite possible that no one agrees with me at all (it wouldn't be the first time, LOL).

There's a proper balance to all things.

As a person who drinks both "swill" and craft beer depending on the circumstances, I think I understand where Roger is coming from. To me, the allure of craft beer is understanding how it is made, what sets it apart, and appreciating the different flavors. When these events are small, there is a better interaction between the patron and the brewer. I have found that as these things get bigger, the mentality turns more into a, "let's get our moneys worth and down as many beers as we can before it runs out" attitude. I know quite a few of my husband's friends who will attend with the same mindset and I am sure they will not be the only ones there with that mindset. When something devolves into that (and I am not saying BATZ has), it doesn't really matter what kind of beer is being served, as long as it's beer. That's the point I took from Roger.

Thanks. It was the point intended.

It bears noting that I'm certainly not singling out the Zoo. These matters have been topics of discussion at all the large fests I've attended the past couple of years, including the Great Taste of the Midwest, which itself is the best run such show I've ever witnessed. The Brewers of Indiana Guild currently is considering reducing the number of tickets sold for the annual guild fest in Indy.

Here is the band/entertainment line-up:
2:00-4:00 The Red Hot Rascal Bavarian Band
4:00-5:00 Bad Blood
5:00-6:00 J. Glenn
6:-00-7:00 Venus Trap
7:00-8:00 BRIDGID KAELIN
8:00-10:00 48 Hour Film Project Award Ceremony, Indicators
10:00-11:00 IAMIS, Das Boot
11:00-12:00 The Adam Riggle Band

Damn, that's alot of music! I'd be silly to miss this.

So I have been reading all 3 pages of these posts, and must admit that I am torn while reading this....because we love BBC and hubby especially is a Tap Room regular, and we're huge fans of Todd's beer selection at Keg (in fact, Hubby's 40th b-day present - all 13 bottles of craft brews - came from Keg last week!) and had a great time at Fest of Ale a few months ago. However, I am also a new Board member of Friends of the Zoo, so it pains me to see BATZ and FOZ cast in a negative light.

Because I am new, I only know parts of the story - a small part of what Todd was forthright enough to tell me, and a part of what I've heard from others on the Board. I admire the fact that Roger has taken great pains to be fair, and not deliberately slam the event on this board, and shows the class I know both he, and the folks at BBC have. Thanks for that guys!

I've attended all of 3 meetings, but here are a few things that I can say with some degree of certainty are true. The volunteers pouring the beer will not be FoZ members or board members, but will be under the auspices of a caterer. They are being routed through said caterer because the FoZ has been told by the Liquor Commission that the only people who will be allowed to pour beer at the event are those directly certified by the license holder (who is taking responsibility for those people). The same people at the liquor commission are requiring all beer to be routed through a distributor. Now why is any of this different than in previous years? I don't know the answer to that question. I only know that event chairs were told that they had to do things differently this year. And the problems that occurred last year? Don't know the root cause of that either.
But here's what I do know - both events will likely be great, but for obviously different reasons. As a passionate fan of local microbrews and microbrewers, I will be torn on the 23rd. But, I take hope in Roger's comment that perhaps in a few months, all of us can get together around one table and find some common ground. Having not been involved in the past, I'm hoping that I can be one of the "fence-menders" that helps that happen.

I hope whichever event (or both) you choose, you have a great time. And if you attend BATZ and are thrilled, PM me and let me know. If you attend BATZ and have a terrible experience, PM and let me know that too. Since I have the advantage of being new, it gives me the chance to be unbiased and provide an honest critique to my fellow Board members. If you attend Volksfest, well, since I know the guys behind it, I know it'll be a great event.

Here's to celebrating the craft of brewing - however you choose to do so!

The volunteers pouring the beer will not be FoZ members or board members, but will be under the auspices of a caterer. They are being routed through said caterer because the FoZ has been told by the Liquor Commission that the only people who will be allowed to pour beer at the event are those directly certified by the license holder (who is taking responsibility for those people).

i've participated in the BATZ event before and experienced the pains of running out of stuff early, but the most interesting portion of this discussion lies in the above quote

Louisville beer laws are ridiculous to begin with and this makes them seem even more so
my questions are as follows

1. Who holds the liquor license under which this event takes place? the zoo, any of the participants, or a catering service??
2. Do the same laws apply for charity event licensing?
3. Why doesn't the zoo own a temporary license of some sort?
4. Do individuals own their own serving license in KY that allows them to serve alcohol for any company? (or are they bound by law to serve for only one license holder; ie can a server at BBC also serve beer at Cumberland?)
5. is the catering service being paid or are they donating their time and services? (like the breweries are, + beer)


this just seems bizarre that the rules regarding beer serving in Louisville appear to be subject to the whim of whomever you get to speak to at the OFFICE (alcohol tobacco commission in IN, the gov entity that governs liquor laws)

while at the whole fools, i got the run around from several local and state agencies regarding the beer sampling question. the folks in St. Matthews even told me once that we could not serve beer in any establishment unless all of the employees in that establishment were over 21

Why have the rules regarding the BATZ suddenly shifted??

just some questions
thanks
shawn

A few more curious questions... What caterer? Why would there be a caterer? All of the restaurants provide their own beer and food.

A few more curious questions... What caterer? Why would there be a caterer? All of the restaurants provide their own beer and food.

I'm going to guess that the caterer is simply for the beer/wine license in order to make serving legal. Laws are different for each state, but in Indiana, technically everyone pouring has to have a servers license for liquor (which includes beer and wine), and there is usually a group (in this case a caterer) who has an overall license to serve.

Best example I can give you is what we have to do for our Fest of Ale in order to make things legal. My store has to purchase a special events temporary permit in order to serve beer in my parking lot for the event. Because I have a liquor license for my store, I am eligible to buy this permit. A group without a license like my store has cannot buy a temporary license for an event.

It might be a little different in Kentucky, but we're talking about liquor laws, so they usually do not make much sense, and of course vary from state to state.

For some reason, it looks like the Kentucky Liquor enforcement group (not sure of their official title) has decided to crack down and imposed some harsher restraints, or at least decided to enforce something that is in the law books, but they rarely bothered to look at. It makes things harder for everyone involved in this situation. The important thing here (tongue in cheek) is that the Commonwealth will be able to get more revenue from the event by getting the money for permits, as well as the excise taxes from the distributor for selling the beer to the BATZ for the event. They are probably the only winner out of this whole thing.