Greetings: Shah's@UofL and the many faces of Iroquois

(I don't know if local forum etiquette demands these be divided into several topics or whether a single topic is appropriate; if I chose poorly, I apologize)

First off, I'm new to Louisville, or I was as of 6 or so months ago and I guess I'm becoming something of a native now. I live and work aroundabout the UofL area, so that's the center of my culinary explorations. I was surprised to see, fairly recently, the appearance without fanfare of an institution called "Shah's Mongolian Grill" at Warnock & Crittenden (about 1/4 mi east of the UofL campus). There's no indication this is affiliated with the restaurant of the same name out on Taylorsville, so I'm naturally curious. Has anyone here been there yet, or know anything about it? I'll eventually get around to it with a group for lunch, so if nobody else has the skinny on it, I'll eventually bring the clue. Seems a bad time for a new opening in that location -- during the year a Mongolian BBQ near campus could probably do brisk business, but even with summer classes things are a mite quiet now.

Also, given my location slightly south of the university, I've been exploring Iroquois and environs. It's an interesting location, with some interesting and authentic-looking options. I came here from San Diego and appreciate the number of Vietnamese restaurants but have been a bit disappointed by the absence of some of my favorites from menus. In particular, I'm looking for more dishes with bì (shredded pork skin); several places have the rice, egg, and pork-chop combo, but I've yet to find bì over noodles (either bun or bánh tam). Also trying to find bò 7 món (seven courses of beef), which seemed to be a window-advertised staple back in Kearney Mesa and was always a fun dish for a crowd. Anyone have any luck finding these?

The other thing I've noticed is the Bosnian restaurants. Encountering a cuisine I've never seen before is always fun, but actually getting any Bosnian food aroundabout seems a fiddly proposition. I swung by Djuli a couple times back in the day, but they never seemed inviting -- or even open, which may be why they're no longer around (apropos: anyone been to Blue Nile? Their window menu doesn't suggest anything uniquely Sudanese -- if I'm trying a new culture, I want to know what differentiates them from other vaguely Mediterranean food). I swung by Behar as well about 6:30 on a Saturday, and although the door was open, they weren't actually serving. The only place I've gotten actual Bosnian food was Hani's, which was tasty but I'm always on the lookout for variety. What's out there?

Mystery restaurant I haven't visited: J & B's Bakery and Cafe, in the same block as Coco's Bakery on Southside. I noted it when swinging by Coco's once. I was drawn mostly by the fact that it had hole-in-the-wall qualities and the folks on the patio were speaking a language I couldn't identify. Anyone know anything about it? I'd already eaten that day, or I'd have jumped at the adventure.

[Edited for an uncompleted thought]

[Robin Garr]

(I don't know if local forum etiquette demands these be divided into several topics or whether a single topic is appropriate; if I chose poorly, I apologize)

Jake, no problem ... we're pretty flexible about things like that, as long as we're talking about good things to eat and drink. Welcome to the forum!

A couple of brief thoughts:

The U of L Shah's is indeed connected with the one in Stony Brook in Jeffersontown. As I understand it, they had hoped to open earlier in the year but were slowed by construction delays.

Vietnamese in Louisville is pretty much a glass-half-empty, glass-half-full deal: We're delighted that our small Vietnamese community has gifted us with a half-dozen decent Vietnamese eateries, mostly in the South End. But we certainly can't come close to the depth or breath of options in the Bay Area. Vietnam Kitchen generally wins most "best of" contests in the genre, but Cafe Annie comes close, and frankly, I like them all. If you're in the market for something interesting and off-menu, you might try chatting up the management ... you never know, if they discover there's an interest, they might come up with something.

Bosnian is another interesting category here: We've had more, as a wave of Bosnian immigrants came through, but they didn't all succeed. Among those remaining, Sarajevo (or whatever its name is now) just off Old Bardstown Road in Buechel is probably the best. I'm not certain that Djuli is still in business.

Louisville gets clusters of interesting ethnic spots because, like Minneapolis, Austin and a few other metros around the nation, we have unusually active refugee programs here that find housing for newcomers from various, usually war-torn areas, help them get settled and offer job training. We've had a couple of Senegalese restaurants with similar roots.

J & B's Bakery and Cafe interests me. It's not on my radar, though. Did you notice if the folks on the patio appeared to be Asian, European or other?

Anyway, I'm sorry I don't have more specific answers for you, but I hope others will jump in.

The cafe beside Coco's Bakery is Bosnian. My husband and I went there months ago when we were craving bubble tea (something Louisville desperately needs more of) and Cocos was closed. My husband got the typical sausages and sour cream tucked in a huge round of bread. He liked it and said the people in the cafe were very friendly and helpful. I stayed in the car sulking over my absent bubble tea

Vietnamese in Louisville is pretty much a glass-half-empty, glass-half-full deal: We're delighted that our small Vietnamese community has gifted us with a half-dozen decent Vietnamese eateries, mostly in the South End. But we certainly can't come close to the depth or breath of options in the Bay Area. Vietnam Kitchen generally wins most "best of" contests in the genre, but Cafe Annie comes close, and frankly, I like them all. If you're in the market for something interesting and off-menu, you might try chatting up the management ... you never know, if they discover there's an interest, they might come up with something.

Oh, I'll freely admit I've been spoiled. And I'm a bit shy, so going off the traditional restaurant rails is never easy for me. Guess I ought to become somewhat a regular somewhere, to have a better footing. Bun bì and bánh tam should be within their abilities, though: their just different combinations of things they already do. I kinda think VK is overrated, personally -- yeah, they're good, but I can think of several other Vietnamese places in South Louisville which do at least as good a job on what I've had there.

Bosnian is another interesting category here: We've had more, as a wave of Bosnian immigrants came through, but they didn't all succeed. Among those remaining, Sarajevo (or whatever its name is now) just off Old Bardstown Road in Buechel is probably the best. I'm not certain that Djuli is still in business.

Thanks for the heads-up in Sarajevo -- I'll have to check it out. Djuli is indeed gone, and replaced by The Blue Nile, a Sudanese restaurant.

J & B's Bakery and Cafe interests me. It's not on my radar, though. Did you notice if the folks on the patio appeared to be Asian, European or other?

European, and the language wasn't anything recognizably Romance, German, or Hungarian. That makes Bosnian sound most plausible, as verified by NicoleP (thanks for the tip, Nicole! Time for an adventure.)

[Robin Garr]

I can think of several other Vietnamese places in South Louisville which do at least as good a job on what I've had there.

Names, man, names! Seriously, with your background, we'd love to know the ones you like. I'm fond of Pho Binh Minh as an alternative. I think the thing about VK is that it's been around for a long time, it's easy to find, and the staff's command of English and mixed crowd makes it easy for the wary. It's sort of like the Outer Boroughs spots in NYC that end up in Zagat and similar lists for Manhattanites, mainly because they're close to the subway and easy to find. Not to take anything away from VK, though. I do like it.

Names, man, names! Seriously, with your background, we'd love to know the ones you like.

Eep. I hope I haven't painted myself as a connoisseur of fine Vietnamese food. I generally promote variety and apparent authenticity over quality, although I'm not insensitive to good food. But as far as my (lamentably infrequent) outings to the Vietnamese restaurants in the south go, I've spent the most time at Annie's for two reasons: it's the closest to me, and they have a quite tasty banh uot which is cheap enough that it begs to be rounded out with an appetizer (usually bi cuon -- I've already mentioned my addiction to the shredded pork skin). My main complaint about Annie's is that some of the portions (especially of the pho, which normally comes in enormous bowls) are on the smallish side. VK is, eh, VK. It does everything well enough, nothing too ambitiously. Pho Binh Minh I liked when I went there 8 months ago, and I haven't been back since, and couldn't say why. Maybe it's because it feels absurdly far away. That may change soon -- it's ridiculously close to J&B's and Coco's, a fact I never appreciated since I always approached Strawberry Lane from the north end. Cafe Thuy Van impressed me reasonably favorably with their food, but their service needs a fair bit of work, from what I can tell -- when I went with friends they lost a couple orders and moved pretty slowly. Their menu seems to have some interesting adventurous stuff on it which I've never seen before, so I'll have to give them another try with a crowd if they can straighten out their organizational woes.

All in all, they're all pretty decent but, in the end, are hampered in my mind by their limited menus, a situation which it doesn't strike me is strictly necessary. Starting with a simple item like bun, you can offer a wide variety of permutations of ingredients: shredded pork, barbecued pork, sugarcane shrimp, miniature cha gio, fried tofu squares, and so forth. I could probably get any of those by special request at any of these places, but I'd also like to see more specialty entrees, particularly fish (VK is actually pretty good at these, to give credit where it's due), and rice paper wrap dishes, and I could go on endlessly. Maybe I'll have to actually chat with them about these possibilities instead of griping online. For all I know, they'll already do all of this, provided you want it, and they just assume we hidebound Americans won't.

I think I maybe need to revisit all of these places sometime soon. Pho Binh Minh, in particular, is a distant memory.

[Robin Garr]

I think I maybe need to revisit all of these places sometime soon. Pho Binh Minh, in particular, is a distant memory.

Fine report all the same ... thanks!

I can think of several other Vietnamese places in South Louisville which do at least as good a job on what I've had there.

Names, man, names! Seriously, with your background, we'd love to know the ones you like. I'm fond of Pho Binh Minh as an alternative. I think the thing about VK is that it's been around for a long time, it's easy to find, and the staff's command of English and mixed crowd makes it easy for the wary. It's sort of like the Outer Boroughs spots in NYC that end up in Zagat and similar lists for Manhattanites, mainly because they're close to the subway and easy to find. Not to take anything away from VK, though. I do like it.

I really have to disagree with this with this characterization of Vietman Kitchen. VK's popularity is well deserved and based on the quality of its food. I have dined at all of the Vietnamese restaurants in Louisville dozens of times, and at VK hundreds of times. There is no comparison. The quality of the food at VK is much higher than the others, and the menu is much more extensive. I've not encountered a language barrier at the other restaurants either. if anything, the owners of Cafe Annie speak better english than any of them. At VK the owners return to Vietnam every year for two weeks. While there, they seek out new recipes and dishes to add to their menu. They are very serious about presenting authentic Vietnamese cuisine to their customers and educating them about the food and its origins.

If there are some Vietnamese dishes that Jake enjoyed in San Diego that he hasn't found here, he should mention them to Kim or Kwan at VK. They will be happy to replicate them if they can.

Although it's far afield from Iroquois area, I still have to recommend Basa on lower Frankfort Ave.

It's more of an "upscale" Vietnamese - with French fusion influence - but has (IMO) the best food by far. While I never tried, I'd guess that if you went on a weekday when they weren't too crowded, you could get almost anything you wanted; I know that we've made changes to the menu in our ordering without problems (although I don't like to do that on a crowded weekend).

One thing: their Pho will NOT leave you commenting on a too-small portion!

[Robin Garr]

I still have to recommend Basa on lower Frankfort Ave.

I agree insofar as Basa is one of the top restaurants in Louisville, but to me, the fusion character - and the upscale atmosphere as well - place it in an entirely different category than VK and the other local Vietnamese places. It's like going to NYC and listing Vong (is it still around) and an ethnic Southeast Asian eatery in Queens as being alike.

[Robin Garr]

I really have to disagree with this with this characterization of Vietman Kitchen. VK's popularity is well deserved and based on the quality of its food. I have dined at all of the Vietnamese restaurants in Louisville dozens of times, and at VK hundreds of times. There is no comparison.

As I said, my analysis was not meant to take anything away from VK. I agree with you. However, it's not a zero-sum game. Everything you said is true AND VK is the go-to place for people from other parts of town who go there because it's accessible, just as Manhattanites are (were?) much more likely to go to Omonia than any other upscale Greek place in Astoria because it was right at the foot of the stairs from the N Train and for that reason alone it was the one most often reviewed.

I really have to disagree with this with this characterization of Vietman Kitchen. VK's popularity is well deserved and based on the quality of its food. I have dined at all of the Vietnamese restaurants in Louisville dozens of times, and at VK hundreds of times. There is no comparison. The quality of the food at VK is much higher than the others, and the menu is much more extensive.

I will admit I may have misled myself on their qualities -- perhaps as a personal response to the fact that it sure feels overhyped locally (together with its neighbor, the Valu Market, which I will admit has a most excellent Cubano but grocerywise isn't the best place around for much of anything). This discussion has spurred me to go back on a tour of the Iroquois/Kenwood Vietnamese restaurants, and I'm definitely going to try to do them justice. Also, get copies of menus wherever possible, just for future reference.

My tour actually started a day early -- I swung down to J&B's hoping to get a feel for their food, but they weren't serving dinner. Do they only do lunch? So far, I'm 1 for 4 on actually getting a meal from Bosnian restaurants.

I've not encountered a language barrier at the other restaurants either. if anything, the owners of Cafe Annie speak better english than any of them. At VK the owners return to Vietnam every year for two weeks. While there, they seek out new recipes and dishes to add to their menu. They are very serious about presenting authentic Vietnamese cuisine to their customers and educating them about the food and its origins.

If there are some Vietnamese dishes that Jake enjoyed in San Diego that he hasn't found here, he should mention them to Kim or Kwan at VK. They will be happy to replicate them if they can.

Again, I really must revisit. I may be singing a different tune in a few days. I'll inquire after my old favorites if the opportunity arises.

(together with its neighbor, the Valu Market, which I will admit has a most excellent Cubano but grocerywise isn't the best place around for much of anything).

Wow - if you can find a better place to find multiple types of rice (and jasmine in large bags for little money) or the variety of non-tradition veggies, I'll gladly follow you there!

Wow - if you can find a better place to find multiple types of rice (and jasmine in large bags for little money) or the variety of non-tradition veggies, I'll gladly follow you there![/quote]

I'll second that one, lots of stuff there and great produce vs. Kroger

GG.

The only place I ever eat in Astoria is Kebab Cafe, so I can't comment on what places Manhattanites prefer, but I really don't think that VK is more popular because it is easier to find or more friendly to english speakers. Cafe Annie is very easy to find, and I hardly consider a shop front in the back of Iroquois Manor a prime location to attract east-enders. VK became popular for the same reason that many places do . . . it serves great food. Hardcore foodies often have a backlash against a place once it is "discovered" by the masses, but that shouldn't take away from the great cooking that is going on at VK.