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Roger A. Baylor

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by Roger A. Baylor » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:23 am

Just an outstanding post.
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Ron Johnson

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by Ron Johnson » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:52 am

Roger A. Baylor wrote:Just an outstanding post.


I agree, but that sort of level-headed, even-handed, rationale thought on the topic doesn't usually prevail around these parts . . . :(
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TP Lowe

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by TP Lowe » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:18 am

Steve Magruder wrote: The main reason I feel this way is because small business is the backbone of the economy, and people who run small businesses are largely trying to escape from working for corporations, in my estimation. So give them a break with your business, so they don't have to be miserable in the ways they have to make money! :D


Steve, I agree with almost all of what you posted. Thank you.

I think the section above is most to my point of this thread in the first place, which didn't start off as a "chain vs. local restaurant" discussion, but rather an assessment of why "corporations" get bagged so often on the board by all of us who ultimately are likely investors in the businesses we trash publicly. But, as one who left a large company to work with close partners in a small business, I embrace your assessment in the paragraph above heartily!
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Steve Magruder

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by Steve Magruder » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:01 pm

TP Lowe wrote:Steve, I agree with almost all of what you posted. Thank you.

I think the section above is most to my point of this thread in the first place, which didn't start off as a "chain vs. local restaurant" discussion, but rather an assessment of why "corporations" get bagged so often on the board by all of us who ultimately are likely investors in the businesses we trash publicly. But, as one who left a large company to work with close partners in a small business, I embrace your assessment in the paragraph above heartily!


I guess I wanted to avoid the political side of the topic. Crafty, eh? :)

I personally feel like I'm of two minds with regards to corporations. I admire their economies of scale (and accordingly, how some advanced products have become so cheap), and I admire the leads some corporations have taken with regards to accepting gay people and their relationships, but the homogeneity they tend to promote makes me ill. I think we should realize that corporations are about making the most cash from the average, no-attention-span, little-taste consumer (I'm sure I'll get beat up over that). Corporations think in terms of how they can market to the masses, as if the masses are all the same, or can be made to think the same. So, I suppose as long as enough people "go along with the program", corporations will maintain their power in this society. Corporations will last only as long as consumers are willing to feed them their cash.

Note that I think many, many corporations are deserving of support in the economy. It's just that the corporations that provide us with dining experiences largely don't seem to care about fine-tuning anything to suit people with specific or irregular tastes. And in terms of making a continuous fat profit, I'm not surprised they don't care.

Ultimately, I think we'll just have to accept that there are two forms of dining experiences, the local and the corporate/chain. The tension between the two makes for interesting discussion, as well as a great challenge for the locals. I think we shouldn't shed too many tears for the corporations, as they will almost always find their buck. If we care about promoting local eateries, let's keep doing it and let the chips fall where they may.
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Jeremy Mott

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by Jeremy Mott » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:58 pm

I think with the addition of my $.02 on this thread, we'll be approaching five bucks!

My take on TP's original post...Understand your sentiments completely. Although I share the prevailing views/attitudes on this board, it really does irritate me when people off-handedly bash "the corporations", as if some fictious, all-emcompassing "thing" or "idea" is to blame for most--if not all--our country's/the world's ills. I've been known to refer to "the evil corporations" before, but I don't use it as an umbrella statement and tend to think that I have principled, well-thought-out stances on corporations. Not just one, unprincipled, rash one (i.e. they're all EVIL). (NOTE: Am not accusing anyone here of rash judgements, but I think such a mentality exists). All that said, nobody that knows me has ever accused me of being anything within ten miles of a corporate-sympathizer. :wink: I assure you, I'm anything but.

Now to those who lump all corporations together, I ask you: What's the alternative? I'm not being rhetorical here; I'm humbly asking (as TP did originally): If not corporations, then what?


That said, along with different corporations (good/bad corp. citizens) there are different business arenas that corporations occupy. I think the point many people make here is that the restaurant business is one which is, inherently, not suited to the corporate structure. Computer companies? Auto manufacturers? Yes. Restaurants? Brewers? Wineries? No. And I agree with this wholeheartedly.

As for the whole chain/local thing (as it applies to restuarants)...It is the Louisville Restaurant Forum and, as such, should be comprised mainly of discussion/praise/criticism for establishments unique to Louisville. Not to the outright exclusion of regional or nationwide chains (as franchises are located in Louisville). But I do not think that chain restaurants (not unique to Louisville) deserve as much coverage as locals.
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Leah S

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by Leah S » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:07 pm

Robin,
Because enquiring minds want to know, have we set a record or anything for # views for a single thread :?:
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by TP Lowe » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:10 pm

Jeremy Mott wrote:I think with the addition of my $.02 on this thread, we'll be approaching five bucks!

My take on TP's original post...Understand your sentiments completely. Although I share the prevailing views/attitudes on this board, it really does irritate me when people off-handedly bash "the corporations", as if some fictious, all-emcompassing "thing" or "idea" is to blame for most--if not all--our country's/the world's ills. I've been known to refer to "the evil corporations" before, but I don't use it as an umbrella statement and tend to think that I have principled, well-thought-out stances on corporations. Not just one, unprincipled, rash one (i.e. they're all EVIL). (NOTE: Am not accusing anyone here of rash judgements, but I think such a mentality exists). All that said, nobody that knows me has ever accused me of being anything within ten miles of a corporate-sympathizer. :wink: I assure you, I'm anything but.

Now to those who lump all corporations together, I ask you: What's the alternative? I'm not being rhetorical here; I'm humbly asking (as TP did originally): If not corporations, then what?


That said, along with different corporations (good/bad corp. citizens) there are different business arenas that corporations occupy. I think the point many people make here is that the restaurant business is one which is, inherently, not suited to the corporate structure. Computer companies? Auto manufacturers? Yes. Restaurants? Brewers? Wineries? No. And I agree with this wholeheartedly.

As for the whole chain/local thing (as it applies to restuarants)...It is the Louisville Restaurant Forum and, as such, should be comprised mainly of discussion/praise/criticism for establishments unique to Louisville. Not to the outright exclusion of regional or nationwide chains (as franchises are located in Louisville). But I do not think that chain restaurants (not unique to Louisville) deserve as much coverage as locals.


Jeremy, you got right to the essence of what I was trying to bring out - and you did so much more eloquently than did I. Many thanks.
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Steve Magruder

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by Steve Magruder » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:15 pm

Jeremy Mott wrote:Now to those who lump all corporations together, I ask you: What's the alternative? I'm not being rhetorical here; I'm humbly asking (as TP did originally): If not corporations, then what?


I don't lump them all together. There are good players and bad players. I would like to see the bad players severely dealt with, somehow (Note: I don't think the "free market" is always efficient at dealing with bad players). But all the rest can go on their merry ways as far as I'm concerned. If a corporation is good to its employees, customers, community and the environment, why complain?

As for alternatives, with the advent of the Internet and other business streamlining technologies, it may be increasingly practicable for individuals and small enterprises to form alliances or cooperatives, so this may ultimately mean that we'll see fewer "old-style" corporations in the economy. They won't go away completely though. Also, within agriculture, there is a movement toward local growing and selling. This might be that unique time in history where we could become a nation of mostly small businesses, both competing and cooperating wherever it makes sense. We'll see.
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TP Lowe

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by TP Lowe » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:22 pm

Steve Magruder wrote:
Jeremy Mott wrote:Now to those who lump all corporations together, I ask you: What's the alternative? I'm not being rhetorical here; I'm humbly asking (as TP did originally): If not corporations, then what?


I don't lump them all together. There are good players and bad players. I would like to see the bad players severely dealt with, somehow (Note: I don't think the "free market" is always efficient at dealing with bad players).


I disagree (but only mildly) with the "free market" statement. Consider Enron - the financials were collapsing around them, and folks ranging from two reporters from Newsweek to analysts covering the company were reporting it. If the federal government had not stepped in, the company would have imploded in short order. Do I feel sorry for the shareholders who got caught up in the hype and rode the stock both up and down? Well, sort of ... but there was an awful lot of greed around that whole disaster.

I can probably come up with similar examples (Adelphia, Tyco, etc) where the markets would have ultimately solved the riddle, but there was too much excitement to create a "perp walk" that the implosion of bad economics didn't play out before the entertainment kicked in.
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Robin Garr

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by Robin Garr » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:45 pm

Leah s wrote:Robin,
Because enquiring minds want to know, have we set a record or anything for # views for a single thread :?:


No clue, Leah ... I don't really keep track of that. Almost certainly some of the contentious threads on the old forum were longer, and this one is artificially inflated because of all the deleted posts. But it's soitanly a contendah!
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