Is 18% Tip Presumptuous?

We had dinner Thursday night at Seviche on Goose Creek about 6:00. A total of 6...myself, my wife, the mother-in-law, our 13 y/o son, and my best friend and his 14 y/o son. The dinning room was about half full and doing a nice steady business. We didn't have a reservation but sat right down....again there was alot of space in the dining room.

Anyway the adults had adult beverages plus an appetizer, dinner, dessert, and a nice Chateaunuf-de-pape in the $75 range. Both kids had an adult entree, soft drinks, and dessert. Total bill was somewhere around $360. I was surprised to see a pre-included 18% gratuity. Because the service was nice I bumped the total tip to about 20%. Total bill well over $400.

Now we didn't ask to have the check split, the dining room wasn't all that busey, and we didn't hold back or cut corners in terms of what we spent. The service was fine. But frankly I was irritated to the point of almost offended that an 18% gratuity was added to my bill. Isn't this a bit presumptuous? Now the service was fine....I acknowledged that and added to the total, to approximate a 20% tip on a fairly expensive dinner. But IMO, at a restaurant of this caliber, it's my determination what the tip should be. Is it because it was a 6-top.....because we didn't require any special attention.

We love Seviche and eat there quite a bit....we always take good care of our servers and try to be generous and reward good service. But if it's on my bill it's not a gratuity ....it's a service fee.

Rant over.....we'll be back at Seviche next week.

I take groups of 10 or more to dinner in different cities around the country pretty regularly, and 18% is pretty standard in those situations. I don't remember the last time a "required gratuity"--we're deep in oxymoron territory now--was less than 18%. 6 seems small for a required gratuity, but it wouldn't offend me.

Any pre-included gratuity is presumptuous. A tip should be earned, not guaranteed. Let me pose this question. Where you work, are your earnings guaranteed whether or not you perform your job well, or do they pay you regardless?

Any pre-included gratuity is presumptuous. A tip should be earned, not guaranteed. Let me pose this question. Where you work, are your earnings guaranteed whether or not you perform your job well, or do they pay you regardless?

Where you work, does the customer get to decide how much he/she pays you all on their own?

Oh Doogy you are completely wrong. If you don't want to pay the gratuity, then don't eat out with a party of 6 or more. Also in my experience it is always listed on the menu that a gratuity is added at a certain point. If this is a problem for you, I would suggest keeping your party on the smaller side. Frankly, and I'm not accusing anyone here, but its there for a reason. There is a common misperception that a tip stops at a certain dollar amount...with diners who are inexperienced, it's usually 20-30 dollars. For a bill that can easily exceed 250-400, it can really ruin a server's night. Often when there is a big table it will be the only table a server will get or take up the bulk of the server's section for much of the night. I can assure you, that when I'm serving a table of 6 or more and adding gratuity, I do not give anything less than the same great service I offer any other customer, but I do not apologize for the perfectly acceptable policy, nor would I work at an establishment who did not have such a policy. I really think you're reaching here.

If it's listed on the menu, and it most certainly was, you shouldn't be offended, and I'm sure they meant nothing by it.

Any pre-included gratuity is presumptuous. A tip should be earned, not guaranteed. Let me pose this question. Where you work, are your earnings guaranteed whether or not you perform your job well, or do they pay you regardless?

um...you mean a salary? Yeah I'd say that's most people...if you don't perform well then they can fire you, not dock your pay.

also- I should preface that while I stand by everything I just said, I may have a remainder of snippy-ness after this weekend....it was extremely long! I'm not trying to be mean...but I do feel strongly about this so I apologize for any lapse in friendly tone.

Another forum that I participate in regularly discusses Walt Disney World. There's been a big discussion going on there regarding Disney charging a mandatory 20% gratuity to people on one of their dining plans. Needless to say this has created quite a few negative comments. The main point there also is that if it's mandatory it's not a gratuity, it's a service charge. I personally agree with this point, I should be able to determine the gratuity based on the service provided.

I realize the wait staff is not well paid and I always tip well but how much I tip should be my decision not the restaurants. I also believe that if the waiter (or waitress) knows they're guaranteed a good tip they're less likely to provide good service.

Maybe the best solution is the one used in Europe, have the menu price include the gratuity. It certainly eliminates the animosity that a mandatory gratuity does.

I have never had a problem with 18% added (which is the standard amount I've seen). On the occasions when service was exceptionally good, I've added to the amount. There was one time when I was dissatisfied with the service (for a specific reason), and I called over the manager, told him, and asked to adjust the tip down accordingly (and there was no problem in doing that).

From a Restaurant owners perspective, a required tip is not usally done here. Only time is when we have 8 seperate checks at one table. This is even rare to do as the tip if required is taxable in the state of kentucky so your hitting your customer for more sales tax on a normally not taxable item. To charge a required tip on a party of 6 in my opion very presumtuous. My experience says I can count on one hand in the past year where a server really got stiffed. I had a server with a 760.00 check this weekend and received a 400.00 tip, so I will argue over time the ones who stiff a server are only stiffing themselves and the average over a year says they will do just fine.

I coucil my servers not to worry about the one tip worry about their state of mind and the tips will come.

Rod R
Ferd Grisanti

In the end it's up to the restaurant how they handle it however, personally I feel a party of 6 is too small to apply a mandatory gratuity. Eight I could see but six is a pretty common party size.

Also if this wasnt posted anywhere in the restaurant I'd have a severe issue if I found this on my check. Maybe i missed in the thread where it was clarified if it had been posted somewhere.

I am sure that some readers will take serious offense at my post, but here it goes. 20 percent of $400 is $80. That's for one table of 6 people. Some of us work hard all day for that amount. How much do waitpersons actually make at good restaurants? I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever they like, but really, it's just bringing food and drinks across a room. I apologize in advance to all hard working servers, but that is just my opinion.

I am sure that some readers will take serious offense at my post, but here it goes. 20 percent of $400 is $80. That's for one table of 6 people. Some of us work hard all day for that amount. How much do waitpersons actually make at good restaurants? I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever they like, but really, it's just bringing food and drinks across a room. I apologize in advance to all hard working servers, but that is just my opinion.

When I first read this post, it made some sense to me. But then . . . if you work all day for that amount, what are you doing spending $400 at a restaurant?

Is there inequity in how much servers are paid at the Oak Room compared to Shoney's? Yes. But so are the owners, the chefs, the managers, and everyone else. When you go to a restaurant where the bill could be $400, do you say, "I'll offer you $3 instead of $8.50 because that's all I think it is worth"?

No one forces anyone to pay high sums at elite restaurants. If you go, tip the servers in relation to the whole. Otherwise, you'll get Shoney's service.

I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever they like, but really, it's just bringing food and drinks across a room. I

Mark, that was a pretty bold statement. Maybe I can enlighten you about a server's responsibilties. I'm not sure about all establishments, but almost every restaurant that I worked at required at least an hour or so of sidework before and after the shift. Without that sidework getting finished, you would have to get your food to go. Many restaurants require servers to stack or unstack heavy furniture. Servers have to work with the kitchen to get whatever you ordered just the way you like it and that's not always easy. Some restaurants that will remain anonymous have servers dumpster-dive to make sure the right stuff is thrown in the correct dumpster. When a server waits on more than four people, it takes a lot more effort to make sure you have a full water glass and anything else you need while waiting on other tables. I could go one, but I wanted to point out that serving is far more than just bringing food and drinks across a room.

If you only knew the treatment that I endured from arrogant bartenders this weekend just to get a the customer exactly what they wanted...

Also, if someone is regularly dropping $400 on a meal when s/he only makes $80/day, then they are living beyond their means which is their own problem--not the server's.

I really believe this thread is ridiculous..... maybe my expectations are too high for people on this forum.

I really believe this thread is ridiculous..... maybe my expectations are too high for people on this forum.

Exactly what is ridiculous? My sentiments?