CJ reviews El Toro ... but is it "Tex-Mex"?

[Robin Garr]

I wasn't sure why you were analogizing El Toro to Don Pablos and Tumbleweed. Are their menus similar? Tumbleweed is trying to be a steakhouse/BBQ restaurant now.

It's both, really. Tumbleweed is trying to be a "Southwestern" steakhouse, which means a lot of their dishes have a "Mexican" accent, and they still have a menu page with their old "classics," although they don't seem to me to be done as well.

If they have fajitas, combination plates and the like, then the genre of cuisine is Tex-mex, and Marty was correct. Whether it is good or authentic Tex-Mex that would please a texan is something different altogether. I think Marty was on point.

I'm sticking with the argument that just because it's in wide use to call that style of cooking "Tex-Mex," it's not very accurate, and Diana Kennedy, although a serious expert on Mexican regional cuisine, isn't really the best arbiter. As others have pointed out in this thread, true Tex-Mex is a distinct regional cuisine, and it's no more akin to Don Pablo's or to Tumbleweed's original pre-chain menu than the cuisine of Tuscany is to all the places that call themselves "Tuscan."

Robin, please tell me a few dishes that you believe are quintessential "Tex-Mex".

[Robin Garr]

Robin, please tell me a few dishes that you believe are quintessential "Tex-Mex".

A Texas bowl of red would be a classic example, as opposed to a Mexican chile colorado. It's really not the dish, thouth it's the style of the restaurant. Mi Tierra in San Antonio would be a good example. You can get a pizza in Naples, or you can get a pizza from Papa John's. You could even argue, if you wanted to, that the Papa John's pizza was "Italian." But it's not the same thing. Some specific dishes that are more common in Texas than South of the Border, though, might include chilaquiles, chalupas, chimichangas and the aforementioned fajitas. I doubt that you'd find a real Tex-Mex restaurant bringing out the fajitas on a red-hot iron plate to make them sizzle and steam while over-cooking the hell out of the beef.

I'm really just making two points here, but I'm obviously not making them very clearly.

1. Tex-Mex, in its true, original sense, is the Mexican-influenced but bilingual cuisine of the Texas border country, certainly along the Rio Grande but extending as far north as San Antonio, the Spanish-speaking districts of Houston and maybe even Austin. You could argue that it ranks as another Mexican regional cuisine, but resident Anglos eat it and make it at home, too.

2. "Tex-Mex" has come to be used in the general media as a synonym for "dumbed down, Americanized "Mexican" cookery, probably for no better reason than that people take "Tex-Mex" to mean "Americanized Mexican." But that's not really what it is, and I try to avoid perpetuating this misconception when I write about food.

Wow two pages on this...I think I will go to Tumbleweed and have there mesquite cooked pork chops....Yum....

[Robin Garr]

Robin, please tell me a few dishes that you believe are quintessential "Tex-Mex".

Adding to the above, this reference from Phil Brittin's and Joseph Daniel's cookbook, Texas on the Half Shell, indicates that things remain pretty much as they were when the book was published in 1982:

"From the 889-mile-long border that separates four Mexican states from Texas comes a culinary hybrid called Tex-Mex Cooking. Today this is actually an 'umbrella' term under which falls several cooking styles, i.e., authentic Mexican cooking, Texas' interpretation of authentic Mexican cooking and the adulterization of Mexican and Tex-Mex cooking by the fast-food chains. To extract a definition of Tex-Mex is difficult, because the cultural and culinary intermingling of peoples along the border has blurred the distinctive lines between traditional Mexican cookery and its offspring - Tex-Mex. If you ask the locals to characterize the differences in the two styles, their conflicting opinions only add to the confusion. ... One border cook put it this way: 'Authentic Mexican cooking has thousands of dishes. Because of the varied geography of Mexico, a greater selection of foods are available. You'll find peanuts, chocolate, squashes, pumpkins and pineapples in the regional dishes. Tex-Mex is less 'exotic' but still good."

Robin, please tell me a few dishes that you believe are quintessential "Tex-Mex".

Adding to the above, this reference from Phil Brittin's and Joseph Daniel's cookbook, Texas on the Half Shell, indicates that things remain pretty much as they were when the book was published in 1982:

"From the 889-mile-long border that separates four Mexican states from Texas comes a culinary hybrid called Tex-Mex Cooking. Today this is actually an 'umbrella' term under which falls several cooking styles, i.e., authentic Mexican cooking, Texas' interpretation of authentic Mexican cooking and the adulterization of Mexican and Tex-Mex cooking by the fast-food chains. To extract a definition of Tex-Mex is difficult, because the cultural and culinary intermingling of peoples along the border has blurred the distinctive lines between traditional Mexican cookery and its offspring - Tex-Mex. If you ask the locals to characterize the differences in the two styles, their conflicting opinions only add to the confusion. ... One border cook put it this way: 'Authentic Mexican cooking has thousands of dishes. Because of the varied geography of Mexico, a greater selection of foods are available. You'll find peanuts, chocolate, squashes, pumpkins and pineapples in the regional dishes. Tex-Mex is less 'exotic' but still good."

OK, that fits in exactly with the post I made from Diana Kennedy and Robb Walsh. I doubt there is anyone more authoritative on Tex-Mex right now than Walsh.

So, you're position is that El Toro is to Tex-Mex as Papa Johns is to Italian? Really? El Toro is really that far removed from Tex-Mex? Wow, if that's true then Marty's review is very misleading.

This is the source I am using. http://www.buy.com/prod/the-tex-mex-cookbook-a-history-in-recipes-and-photos/q/loc/106/36270356.html

2. "Tex-Mex" has come to be used in the general media as a synonym for "dumbed down, Americanized "Mexican" cookery, probably for no better reason than that people take "Tex-Mex" to mean "Americanized Mexican." But that's not really what it is, and I try to avoid perpetuating this misconception when I write about food.

I don't agree with this either. I think it has come to mean a restaurant that serves chimichangas, enchilada combination plates, rice and beans with cheese melted on top, fajitas, etc., etc. as opposed to the cuisine one might find at a very authentic taqueria in the states or a restaurant in Oaxaca.

I think you're point seems to be that these bad chain restaurants that do very dumbed down and americanized tex-mex aren't making food that is authentically tex-mex. Maybe El Toro's fajitas are not the same as Ninfa's, but there is no mistaking the genre of the restaurant.

[Robin Garr]

OK, that fits in exactly with the post I made from Diana Kennedy and Robb Walsh. I doubt there is anyone more authoritative on Tex-Mex right now than Walsh.

All these sources seem to agree that "fast food Mexican-American" is a separate category, and I'm saying the same. I'm just taking a stronger position than they are about taking a stand against it. It's careless and imprecise to lump it in with traditional Tex-Mex, just as it's careless and imprecise to lump in fast-food Italian-American as "Tuscan."

So, you're position is that El Toro is to Tex-Mex as Papa Johns is to Italian? Really? El Toro is really that far removed from Tex-Mex? Wow, if that's true then Marty's review is very misleading.

No. I said that DON PABLO'S or TUMBLEWEED is to Tex-Mex as Papa John's is to Italian. I thought we already agreed that El Toro was mislabeled as Tex-Mex.

I loved the slogan that the old Los Indios in New Albany (not bought out by El Nopalito, I believe) used to use on the servers' T-shirts:
Why have Tex-Mex when you can have Mex-Mex?

I've never been in a Don Pablos and Tumbleweed is a bbq steakhouse now, and I have said that several times in this thread. You raised those two restaurants.

My point is that if El Toro does serve the dishes that Marty claims it does in his review, then he is correct to call it Tex-Mex. If Marty is incorrect about El Toro having chips and salsa, combination plates, fajitas, etc., etc., then you are correct, it is not a tex-Mex restaurnat.

I am not sure that calling El Toro Tex-Mex is analogous to calling Papa John's neapolitan or Olive Garden tuscan. Of course, look how many places call themselves a bistro with nary a steak frite or pot au feu in sight.

[Robin Garr]

I've never been in a Don Pablos and Tumbleweed is a bbq steakhouse now, and I have said that several times in this thread.

Tumbleweed is currently, by its own definition, an upscale-casual "Southwestern" steakhouse with a distinct portion of its menu labeled as "Tex-Mex."

I would also note that your definition just plain doesn't work, at least not in Louisville, where EVERY restaurant that calls itself Mexican - except for SOME of the taquerias - offers chips and salsa and other "Mexican-American" dishes simply because people expect it. That is a very poor definition for Tex-Mex, no matter who wrote it.

Personally, I'm opposed to self-defining categories by restaurants, which leads us right down the road toward Tuscan dim sum and Tex-Mex Boston baked beans ...

For what it's worth, my beloved Tex-Mex dish that I have only found at Casa de Hibbs so far during my time in Louisville is Cheese and Onion Enchiladas smothered in brown chili gravy and cheddar cheese (no queso blanco in this dish). Or better yet, the same enchiladas smothered and stacked, rather than rolled, then topped with two fried, over-medium eggs.

I gain three pounds just imagining that plate.

Best regards,
Chris

[Robin Garr]

I gain three pounds just imagining that plate.

I could eat a bunch of that!

For what it's worth, my beloved Tex-Mex dish that I have only found at Casa de Hibbs so far during my time in Louisville is Cheese and Onion Enchiladas smothered in brown chili gravy and cheddar cheese (no queso blanco in this dish). Or better yet, the same enchiladas smothered and stacked, rather than rolled, then topped with two fried, over-medium eggs.

I gain three pounds just imagining that plate.

Best regards,
Chris

Chris, i took your advice and went to the Real Enchilada for lunch today. Very good, and I see what you mean about it having elements of authentic taqueria fare and traditional Tex-Mex combination plates. I had the chicken enchiladas topped with melted cheese (tex-mex) and a side of rice and beans (tex-mex). The salsa that was serve with the chips might just be my favorite yet. I'll be back.

Do you know any of the other mexican and tex-mex restaurants in this area? I have been in mourning since Fontova (real mexican) and Taqueria Mercado (tex-mex) both closed their doors.

Ron...There is a place called Fiesta Time Mexican Grille. It is locate across from the Wal Mart off of Westport Road on Chamberlain Lane. The food is very good....If we can get together one day Ill buy you lunch...

Ron...There is a place called Fiesta Time Mexican Grille. It is locate across from the Wal Mart off of Westport Road on Chamberlain Lane. The food is very good....If we can get together one day Ill buy you lunch...

that's a deal.