Buying Budweiser = John McCain for President

Thats exactly how I feel about Coke vs Pepsi vs RC.....

i believe that puts it in perspective

I'd love some really kickass micro-ketchup.

At this point, a sack of sliders and some cheap swill will do the trick.

Do we need an excuse for sliders???

Heineken and Stella Artois are not the best representations of Dutch & Belgian beer making.
They are the lowest common denominator.
I set my own personal and professional bar a tad higher.

Heineken and Stella Artois are not the best representations of Dutch & Belgian beer making.
They are the lowest common denominator.
I set my own personal and professional bar a tad higher.

Both derive from non-Belgian beermaking traditions, which is why the marketing for Stella is so misleading. The only thing about Belgian beer to be learned from drinking Stella is that even in a place where diversity is abundant, the majority of humans will opt for the flavorless, whether out of concern for cost or a simple absence of knowledge.

There is nothing like politics in a food forum.... but with that, why in the world do these politicians have to raise so much money to run for office. I understand that advertising is expensive, but are people swayed by the fact that a certain politician is able to spend so much to get into office? I just paid $3.39 a gallon, and these guys (and gal) are raising how much money?


I'd also like to find that craft Ketchup..... it has to be good!

none the less, knowing what it takes to make such a flavorless beer and being a fan of the process of brewing and great beer, it is what it is. a great example of such. also, i hardly find it fair to compare such a specific style of beer to a vague grouping of beers

ask a brewer to make a 'standard american lager' and you will get a variation of the aforementioned style. it is what it is and a great example of this. i find it interesting that all are so quick to condemn bud (standard american lager) when it is so closely related in all aspect to beers like stella artois and heineken (which should be noted to be examples of premium american lager).

not a great deal of difference. dare i say, we would need an exceptionally sensitive palate to distinguish the style differences. not to mention the possibility that one would be recieving a 'light struck example' of the "better beer". i guess all im saying, is give them a fair shot at what they do. all though i would order a different style as my choice, i can appreciate the consistently on point product that is sold. sorry about the book.

I adore beer style categories that are expressed primarily with negations of what defines beer.

I might say that a particular castration was the deft and even "great" wielding of a knife, but it's castration just the same.

[ i find it interesting that all are so quick to condemn bud (standard american lager) when it is so closely related in all aspect to beers like stella artois and heineken (which should be noted to be examples of premium american lager).

I "condemn" Stella and Heineken just as quickly.

As a homebrewer, the only thing I have ever made in bjcp's category 1 is a 1D - Munich Helles.

The fact that a macro lager is very hard to make doesnt mean it still doesnt suck, even when made perfectly to spec.

I enjoy the vegetarian all natural ketchup from Whole Foods myself.

I'd love some really kickass micro-ketchup.

Seriously.

I had amazing homemade ketchup during Sunday brunch at the Oakroom last August. The theme for the brunch was Fair Food and they served duck corn dogs with a homemade "ketchup" that I could eat by the spoonful. I have dreamed about those duck corn dogs and complimented the chef repeatedly!

I would love the recipe!!

My girlfriend eats Westbrae Natural Vegetarian Unsweetened Ketchup, but I like my Heinz with it's corn syrup

They make a low carb one now only 3 carbs per serving...Spelda is used....

" i hardly find it fair to compare such a specific style of beer to a vague grouping of beers"

When the specific style in question evolves out of corporate greed (using the cheapest possible grains), and has to be introduced by force as a style to the largest beer competition, there might be a problem. On top of that, the style evolves as a rip off of beers tasted in other countries. If you can not compete with other true Pilseners and have to pay enough to create your own catagory, that is a sad case. There are no vague groups in the BJCP either. Every single beer style is treated exacly the same. Wouldn't the grain bill of bud fit better at a distillery then a brewery?

"the majority of humans will opt for the flavorless, whether out of concern for cost or a simple absence of knowledge."

how about water? its fairly cheap, you could go to the store though, and buy some water that is 'jazzed' up with a fruit flavor or some sort of vitamin enhancement? or, maybe, just maybe, you want just plain old water. you know, more than likely, most folks are just too dumb to go out and get those waters that are fortified, flavored, or different. id say theyre incapable of making this descion on their own. they probably are too dumbed down to know that there are waters out there that have such complexity. oh my, ive had an epiphany....they will go and pursue what they want. even if it is just...plain old water.

if it wasnt good, it wouldnt have made it this far. give thanks to those macros that produce a product that you can use as a standard to rise above. for they have created a market that you can branch from and prosper. just think...what if everyone expected a grainbill made solely of barley, using only the finest hops in the world and requiring small batch attention. where would the bar be?

"Heineken and Stella Artois are not the best representations of Dutch & Belgian beer making.
They are the lowest common denominator.
I set my own personal and professional bar a tad higher."

oh! and by the way, dutch, belgian, american, (hell!!!...lithuanian), if your gonna make a beer style and your gonna adhere to a standard style guideline....well, its gonna be pretty close to the same where ever it is in this wonderful ball of stuff.

"I adore beer style categories that are expressed primarily with negations of what defines beer."

do tell, i have a belgian style double chocolate and cinnamon stout and a light lager (25% corn) on at the house. just what i wanted, have i butchered the definition of a beer lover? maybe im just half the person that i thought i was. no... more than likely, i have moments of clarity, or rather islands of insight. i only approach them when i go for the more complex beer.

"When the specific style in question evolves out of corporate greed (using the cheapest possible grains), and has to be introduced by force as a style to the largest beer competition, there might be a problem. On top of that, the style evolves as a rip off of beers tasted in other countries. If you can not compete with other true Pilseners and have to pay enough to create your own catagory, that is a sad case. There are no vague groups in the BJCP either. Every single beer style is treated exacly the same. Wouldn't the grain bill of bud fit better at a distillery then a brewery?"

please read this http://beeradvocate.com/news/1302423 as i have learned, i believe prohibition and rationing are blamed for the 'dumbing' down of our beer here, well isnt this synonymous with the melting pot that is our country? how many of you are embracing your heritage as a cultural mix or rather just the fact that your are...even better... american? a little something to think about when you get crazy about the lineage of a product you consume.

now, to all that still ride the "i dont like it, its not worth a dang train". a lot of people didnt like free speech, free press, free anything...or maybe someone was just telling them that, you know... refer to the ketchup note. anyways, the point... we have a hell of a market- revel in it. even if there are haves and have nots. it is the best. we have the largest, most complex, id say...the best beer selection and heritage of anyone in the world. we need to support it from all sides. the macros paved the way for the micros, simply by setting a standard. however, diluted it may be. sorry about the book.

I wouldn't say that it equals John McCain for president. It means that you are giving him money. Ask Romney how much money matters. I don't even dare to see how many food products put money in peoples pockets. I already refuse to buy anything that could remotely be bioengineered so I limit myself a lot.

wow

what an interesting discussion of politics, beer, and ketchup

i just have one major point
The "macros" did not pave the way for the micros
quite the opposite in fact
The big 3 (now the big 2) have consistently attempted to (and succeeded in several cases)
1 - not allow fair distribution of micro products (given that almost all major distributors of beer in the current 3 tier system are economically bound to or directly owned by the big 3)
2 - use their sheer economic volume to out micros from particular venues (major sports venues for instance)
3 - utilize their girth to influence marketing agencies to not represent micro/import products (Heineken was a victim of this in the eighties)

Additionally American Macros have set not standard - the American Macro is a cheap imitation of a fine "German/Austrian/Bavarian/Eastern European" style

whoops, i've got to address this one too
"the best beer selection and heritage of anyone in the world."
the best selection possibly (certainly the greatest quantity of selections)
heritage? absolutely not
our four hundred years and some change of brewing in this country as immigrants to the Americas does not hold a candle to the Belgian and German traditions, or even come close to the advanced beer cultures of Ancient Egypt or Rome
our beer heritage is great, no doubt, but we brought it here with us from Europe primarily
and the Macros diluted this great heritage into the golden swill dominating todays market place