Wine sales in Grocery Stores?

Thanks Robin ... I concur about Bonterra.

Well technically Thornton's is a local gas station chain. And if cars start running on H2O, they'll really need to ramp up the sales of Icees.

I do see your point, and I know it sucks that all the mom and pop hardware stores are dying because of Home Depot, but it isn't quite the same thing. The win selection in a grocery store isn't going to compete with the truely unique wine stores in Louisville, and I don't think any of them will be forced out of business because people are getting Fetzer at Kroger. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I have all the wine stores in Indiana disappeared because you can get it at Meijer?

I just think that in America, if it's okay to sell beer in the grocery store, there's no reason not to sell wine. It's a product category that people would buy more of if it were convenient, it's good for you (in moderation), and the only thing preventing it from happening is some questionable people in Frankfort. I did get a response from Rep. Jenkins. I'll post it if anyone wants to see it. (should I ask her permission first?)

Some pertinent info....
Grocery Chains have the power to carry items that they do not profit from, they are counted as a loss. They are there to bring people into the store. Small shops cannot afford these losses. Small shops cannot compete with price points that Groceries have set. Being a chain they buy a larger vloume and receive the discounts that follow with that kind of volume. Not to mention, larger chains often strong arm distributors on pricing. Small shops do not have that power. While the sale of wine in a Krogers may not shut down small shops, it would have a significant impact on their numbers, and their capabilities. So in effect the Home Depot metaphor is kind of the same thing ...And if Krogers is only going to sell mediocre wines, what are you lobbying for in the first place?.....Will Krogers carry your bottles to your car, or order that certain champagne you wanted for New Years, remember your wife's name, or even ask how your job is going? .....They will spit out an automated "Welcome Kroger Plus Shopper"!

I do wish that the powers that be would get off their collective duffs and make it more convienient for us.......I would very much enjoy running into Kroger, getting dinner and Wine, then running to Kroger, then the liquour store.

Geez, come into the 21 century......I guess Rep. Jenkins has a rotary phone and rabbit ears as well.

Well technically Thornton's is a local gas station chain. And if cars start running on H2O, they'll really need to ramp up the sales of Icees.

I do see your point, and I know it sucks that all the mom and pop hardware stores are dying because of Home Depot, but it isn't quite the same thing. The win selection in a grocery store isn't going to compete with the truely unique wine stores in Louisville, and I don't think any of them will be forced out of business because people are getting Fetzer at Kroger. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I have all the wine stores in Indiana disappeared because you can get it at Meijer?

I just think that in America, if it's okay to sell beer in the grocery store, there's no reason not to sell wine. It's a product category that people would buy more of if it were convenient, it's good for you (in moderation), and the only thing preventing it from happening is some questionable people in Frankfort. I did get a response from Rep. Jenkins. I'll post it if anyone wants to see it. (should I ask her permission first?)

I've really been trying to stay out of this one, again because my bias is very obvious.

Wine selections in many grocery stores can and do compete with the unique wine stores in the area. I hate to plug them, but the Meijer on Charlestown Road in New Albany has an aisle over 100 feet dedicated to wine. Yes, there and many "usual suspects" available there, but I have been surprised a few times at what is available at times in there. Where Meijer specifically gets at me is when they will place liquor, wine or beer below costs and use a controlled substance (yes, by law beer, liquor and wine is a controlled substance) as a loss leader to lure people into their stores. There has been several times that I as a store owner was tempted to buy things from them, because it is cheaper than my wholesales prices, and I buy at the lowest advertised prices in the state. Where I cannot compete is with back door dealings that these stores can do (and can not be proven), nor with their ability to raise a can of green beans a few cents and make up the profit there. I also do not have a pharmacy where I can make profit margins in the 1000% range, which then allows me to put a bottle of wine or a case of beer in my ad below costs, because I know I can make up the difference. I also do not have the free labor that the grocery stores have. If you ever notice, rarely do you see a Kroger or Meijer employee stocking the shelves. They always have a vendor come in and do it. I could reduce my labor count significantly if I did not have to hire people to do a basic job like that. I would need someone to ring people up, and nothing more.

It's not a fair market, and I also know that it never will be. Smaller stores like my own have to rely on service, speed, and selection in order to woo the customer in. In my case, I have to offer at least a competitive price, be able to help a customer in any way I can when they come in, and get them on their way faster than they ever could in a grocery store. I think we succeed in doing this, but it is something we have to do every day. I have a passion for what I sell, be it a fine wine, or a craft beer, or a small batch bourbon, and that is something you never will see in a grocery store.

If we had fair competition, then I would fine with any of these large box stores getting these products. On a level playing field, I would dance circles around them. Unfortunately, it is not a level playing field.

Well said Todd. Thanks!

I live in a town where there is wine sales in groceries and lots of cool local wine shops. Aside from mass market wines, I see no duplication in inventory. The grocery stores carry major labels with wide market appeal: lots of Turning Leaf, Kendall Jackson, Mondavi Coastal, Coppola, Penfolds, etc. The local wine shops have those plus cool Languedoc imports from Bobby Kacher's portfolio, Marc de Grazia's Italian wines, Kermit Lynch wines, and small american producers from Finger Lakes, Long Island, and less known parts of California.

I've yet to see a bottle of Blaufranksih in the grocery store.

[Robin Garr]

I live in a town where there is wine sales in groceries and lots of cool local wine shops. Aside from mass market wines, I see no duplication in inventory. The grocery stores carry major labels with wide market appeal: lots of Turning Leaf, Kendall Jackson, Mondavi Coastal, Coppola, Penfolds, etc. The local wine shops have those plus cool Languedoc imports from Bobby Kacher's portfolio, Marc de Grazia's Italian wines, Kermit Lynch wines, and small american producers from Finger Lakes, Long Island, and less known parts of California.

I've yet to see a bottle of Blaufranksih in the grocery store.

It should be noted that at the Prospect Kroger in Louisville, which has a large wine shop that complies with current law, run by a well-known wine guy (Neil Wellinghurst, formerly of Judge Roy Bean and later Wellinghurst's/Park Place), the same is largely true. Even with Neil's influence - and he knows a lot - he's still constrained by Kroger demographics, and the store is largely as you describe.

Even at Whole Foods, where I like the wine shop and the people who run it, the selection has some interesting highlights (including some Languedocs) but is not overly large.

Well I admit I'm not really a wine guy - I tend to buy things I'm familiar with (Penfolds, Woodbridge, etc) that are $10-15 a bottle. When I get a recommendation from someone (Tim Laird from Brown-Forman is a good friend and he always has some interesting suggestions) I will seek them out. I don't have the palate or the budget to become a wine-ie (is that like a foodie?). But I like having a bottle with dinner a couple of times a month, and I generally fail to keep my wine selection stocked because I don't drink enough to make a regualr stop at a wine stores. So having it at the supermarket would benefit me - and it wouldn't cost the wine stores any business because I don't frequent any (please don't think less of me).

I understand the "buying power" argument, Todd - I appreciate that you're in this business and need to protect your territory - and I'm sure there will be a grocery store here and there that will decide to compete on a more serious level - but those are sort of the costs of living in America. You can't make it illegal for Wal-mart to sell groceries because it might put the Pic-Pac out of business. You can't ban cable tv because it will hurt the local network affiliates. Competition isn't just legal in America, it's a benefit to consumers.

If someone in Frankfort presents a legitimate argument as to why you shouldn't sell wine in grocery stores (other than to protect liquor stores, which isn't really a good reason in my opinion), I would love to hear it. The answers I got from Rep. Jenkins were along the lines of "grocery stores allow 18 year olds to sell alcohol" and "minors can roam free" and a bunch of other stuff that held absoulely no water with me because they already sell beer and malt beverages.

good post Aaron. I am really disappointed with Jenkins on this one. Makes no sense to me.

as an aside, I consider myself a winegeek and the vast majority of wine that I buy is around $12 a bottle. You don't need to spend a lot to enjoy the juice!

All this wine talk has me wondering why we don't have a regular thread here devoted to wine finds and wine shop favorites...

[Robin Garr]

All this wine talk has me wondering why we don't have a regular thread here devoted to wine finds and wine shop favorites...

Pretty much because wine geek talk is so geeky that most of the winoes congregate on my wine site, over next door to this one:
WineLovers Discussion Group

It's not local - participants come from all over the world - but it's a great place to go to talk wine in general.

There's no rule against starting wine-related topics here, Ken, but a separate wine group within this forum might be overkill.

I know I say this more parent than a store owner, but one reason I do not like to see alcohol in grocery stores is how easy it is for minors to have access to it. Its extremely easy for them to shoplift or have their 18 year friends ring them up for it. I actually like the idea that it is in a separate area, but I think they should put everything in a separate area, and not discriminate just on wine. Honestly, most minors are not looking for wine to steal (unless its Boone's Farm or MD 20/20). It simply should be in a separate place. For the convienence factor, its still all there in the same building, you just have to go through a separate checkout. It might take you an extra 5 minutes. Indiana just had a bill pass the House and Senate that will segregate all of the alcohol in a grocery store to a separate area specifically so that minors won't have access to it. The big point is that they are supposed to move everything over there and not just wine. The people checking out in this area will have to be at least 19 (still not sure why that young) and under go the same training that we have to in order to get an employee liquor license. I don't think it will have a separate enterance like you see in Kentucky due to the expense that it would cost.

I'm not sure about the laws in Kentucky on this, but in Indiana, you have to be 21 to walk into my store. Yet any grocery store can have all of the beer, wine, and alcohol sitting out in any part of the store. One of the worst things I have ever seen in a grocery store was watching a woman send her 5-6 year old son down an aisle to get "his daddy a six pack of Bud Light". It took everything I had not to say a word to the lady and wander away. I guess that is just part of my arguement of leveling the playing field. In response to Aaron, it is not competition if the playing field is slanted so heavily to one side. Yes competition is good for the customer's and it obviously keeps my prices in line with the box stores as much as possible. What happens when the box stores win out, and your selections dwindle. Then you have no competition, and you'll be standing in a 20 minute line for your box of Franzia.

So of course, I am biased as can be for the little guy. I welcome competition if they are on that same level playing field. It keeps me on my toes, and pushes me to do things that the box stores can't do, and that is good for the consumer. If it was not for the competition I have here in Indiana and also in Kentucky, do you think a small mom and pop liquor store would ever dedicate over 1/3rd of their shelf space to putting in over 350 different craft beers and imports? Without competition, it would be easier to stay the line and sell my Fetzer and Budweiser, but it forced me to try and become more of a destination store. 75% of my wine selection consists of wines that are not available in grocery stores, and my beer selection speaks for itself. That is what the competition has done. I wish there was a way I could sell things below cost and make up the difference somewhere else, but it is not possible for me. So I change my business structure and try to survive.

Thanks, Robin! I'll have to check out the Wine Discussion!

You know, I've been reading all the pros and cons of grocery wine sales and I have to say I pretty ambivalent, but leaning against it now. The 'minors' problem is a real one, and I want to do everything I can to help small, local stores. For me, going to a wine shop in our neighborhood is easier tand closer than going to Kroger's - and we have some good ones, with informed and pleasant folks running them.

Of course, this is all moot since the legislation is apparently dead...

I am a twenty-one year old liquor store employee (not far removed from a minor), so naturally I'm opposed to the 585 bill. At my store, training is required for everyone handling an ID, in order to spot a fake. At my store, believe it or not, $50 bounties are paid for confiscated fake IDs. Can you imagine Kroger doing that? or Wal-Mart? Groceries can and do employee minors. How can we expect them to enforce the law against other minors? Allowing children to handle, stock and sell wine, as well as putting the responsibility of positively identifying a customer in their hands, is irresponsible.