Wine sales in Grocery Stores?

I dont care what kind of imagination you have..the numbers on paper would show an impact on the local shops business, a significant impact...

do you have those numbers? I'd love to see them because wine sales in grocery stores are allowed in lots of cities that have locally owned wine shops that do just fine.

and, I thought this was about saving the children in the grocery stores?

As an aside, I think that too many people don't realize that when we do many things designed to "save the children", we are screwing adults' rights, which doesn't exactly save the children as they reach adulthood.

I actually wrote at one point what I think might make a good (but admittedly sarcastic) axiom about this: "The children will be entirely safe once freedom is entirely destroyed."

Grocers don’t want to hire adults: local package stores are required to by law. Grocers want to sell wine with a staff of teenagers as they currently do with beer. It’s wrong for beer. It’s much more wrong for wine. Grocers want open aisles of alcohol through which people of all ages may wander and shop. Local package stores must prohibit minors from being in their stores unless accompanied by their parents. Enforcement agents upon seeing a teenager go into a package store and coming out with a bag are virtually certain that a crime is been committed. Not true if that teenager goes into a grocery store.

I don't disagree with any of this, except we are discounting the fact that you can already buy wine, beer and hard liquor in many drug stores (CVS, Rite Aid) in Kentucky. I'm not getting how that is any different for the above factors. So if it's okay for drug stores- with no separate entrance or register_ , why shoudn't it be okay for grocery stores? Seems like there is an inequity here that should be resolved consistently.

As a former small grocery store owner who had constant requests for us to sell wine (but couldn't economically have a separate entrance and dedicated staff for a tiny wine shop next door), why can't the restriction of "All Employees over 21" if you sell liquor be the rule , instead of whether your majority business is grocery, liquor or drugs. That would protect the enforcement aspect (and keep Kroger, et all out as they need the cheap teen labor). Just a thought....

Deb

I dont care what kind of imagination you have..the numbers on paper would show an impact on the local shops business, a significant impact...

do you have those numbers? I'd love to see them because wine sales in grocery stores are allowed in lots of cities that have locally owned wine shops that do just fine.

and, I thought this was about saving the children in the grocery stores?

As an aside, I think that too many people don't realize that when we do many things designed to "save the children", we are screwing adults' rights, which doesn't exactly save the children as they reach adulthood.

I actually wrote at one point what I think might make a good (but admittedly sarcastic) axiom about this: "The children will be entirely safe once freedom is entirely destroyed."

I couldn't agree more. Does everyplace have to be Disney World? Besides the argument is ludicrous anyway. It's ok to sell malt liquor in the grocery, but not pinot noir? Please.

That being said…this is a complex issue that the grocers are trying to dumb down. I resent that.
This is about local economics (locally owned businesses being compromised or bankrupted by out-of-state grocery concerns).
This is about a cynical attempt by the grocers to use the fledgling Kentucky wine industry as a Trojan horse to get what they want. Their alleged support of Kentucky wine was nonexistent last spring. It lags behind the efforts of local package stores now. It will likely fade to insignificance after they get what they want.
But mostly, it’s about public safety.

Your post raises a few questions:

How does this law favor out-of-state groceries over in-state groceries?

Why is the public safer if I can buy malt liquor in a grocery store than it would be if I buy a bottle of riesling in a grocery store?

What harm is inflicted to a family of four that walks through an aisle of wine at the grocery store?

You accuse the grocery industry of using the KY wine industry as a trojan horse. It is fairly obvious that the liquor store owners are using the "public safety" argument as their own trojan horse. Both arguments are so bogus as to be laughable. For both sides it is about money, pure and simple. I wish everyone involved would just admit it.

Does everyplace have to be Disney World? Besides the argument is ludicrous anyway. It's ok to sell malt liquor in the grocery, but not pinot noir? Please.

Been to Disney recently? They have some astounding wine lists at their restaurants, and they are quite proud of their annual wine festival. Not to mention the excellent selection of international beers available at Epcot's Pavilion. Even the uber-family oriented "Happiest Place on Earth" is more liberal than our local laws.

I also find it ironic that I can get booze when I refill my prescriptions, but no wine when I buy groceries. Go Rite-Aid!

Does everyplace have to be Disney World? Besides the argument is ludicrous anyway. It's ok to sell malt liquor in the grocery, but not pinot noir? Please.

Been to Disney recently?

Obviously not.

but, Go Mickey!

Ron maybe you shouldnt make assumptions about the Liquor Owner's trojan horse... I for one am not trying to push the protect the children thing. It is about a unique identity in louisville, and small businesses that add to the fabric of that identity. If I were interested in your community (cincinnatti?) I would ask you. I dont mind speculation, in fact I think it is great..but making assumptions is ridiculous. No I dont have the numbers on paper, because the bill hasnt passed Silly. If I had told you that putting a starbucks on every corner would effect local coffee houses' numbers, would I have needed to provide you with numbers ahead of time too? (ask Java or Highland Coffee on 4th St.) ..wait Highland isnt there anymore.

That being said…this is a complex issue that the grocers are trying to dumb down. I resent that.
This is about local economics (locally owned businesses being compromised or bankrupted by out-of-state grocery concerns).
This is about a cynical attempt by the grocers to use the fledgling Kentucky wine industry as a Trojan horse to get what they want. Their alleged support of Kentucky wine was nonexistent last spring. It lags behind the efforts of local package stores now. It will likely fade to insignificance after they get what they want.
But mostly, it’s about public safety.

Your post raises a few questions:

How does this law favor out-of-state groceries over in-state groceries?

Roger's answer----------I don't see that it does and I didn't say that it did. It favors groceries over traditional package stores by allowing groceries to employ minors and allowing minors to frequent their stores. This is not bogus...it's a fact that the groceries do not deny. However, it is Kroger who's driving the issue. It's their representatives that have been lobbying for the change for the last year and a half. The "Food With Wine Coalition" seems to have been created by and funded by Kroger primarily. Interestingly, they filed a similar bill in Tennessee this week. There, they used the name "Red Wine With Food Coalition".
I don't have a problem with the grocery industry wanting something and asking for it. I don't have a problem with their attempt to keep the focus on a small part of the issue; convenience. But we don't have to fall for it.----------

Why is the public safer if I can buy malt liquor in a grocery store than it would be if I buy a bottle of riesling in a grocery store?

Roger's answer----------I don't see that it does and I didn't say that it did.----------

What harm is inflicted to a family of four that walks through an aisle of wine at the grocery store?

Roger's answer----------None that I see. But I rarely "families of four" in groceries. Mostly, I see individuals shopping, and quite often those individuals are under-21. I see much potential harm in that.----------

You accuse the grocery industry of using the KY wine industry as a trojan horse. It is fairly obvious that the liquor store owners are using the "public safety" argument as their own trojan horse. Both arguments are so bogus as to be laughable. For both sides it is about money, pure and simple. I wish everyone involved would just admit it.

I have admitted that money is an issue here. I've not heard anyone deny it. But the public safety concerns are not a "Trojan horse". They are exactly what they appear to be now and exactly what they have been for seventy-plus years.
If the groceries succeed in this legislative effort, the number of outlets for wine in Kentucky will leap from about 600 locations to 950-1000 locations (that's the groceries' number, not mine). It will represent the greatest expansion of access to alcohol in Kentucky since the repeal of prohibition. The public safety concerns are quite real.

If the groceries succeed in this legislative effort, the number of outlets for wine in Kentucky will leap from about 600 locations to 950-1000 locations (that's the groceries' number, not mine). It will represent the greatest expansion of access to alcohol in Kentucky since the repeal of prohibition. The public safety concerns are quite real.

How will this increase in the number of places to buy wine put the public in danger?

What are the public safety concerns you mention, and why do they exist for wine but not for the malt liquor and beer that are already sold at every grocery store and gas station in the Commonwealth?

Why have none of these "public safety concerns" emerged in cities like St. Louis and Cincinnati where wine is sold in grocery stores?

Ben - don't take my comments as an attack, because I'm just continuing the discussion and I know that as a person in the wine sales biz, you need to protect your turf, BUT -

If people want to drink Starbucks instead of Highlands, that ain't Starbucks fault, and you can't punish them for branding their stores so well that people feel compelled to drink their coffee at exorbitant prices when there are two local places within walking distance (I know this situation very very well because I work on 4th street and at one point I could walk to Java, Highlands, and 2 different Starbucks within 2 blocks - although usually I'm fine with the coffee in the break room). And you can't make chain coffee stores illegal to protect the local stores - or prevent chains from selling lattes or something so that the local stores have an advantage.

How about a more personal example - I work in radio. I highly doubt that you see internet or satellite radio as being an evil that is hurting the local radio stations. Most people like having the freedom of choice. Would you support making internet radio illegal to keep it from harming the "uniqie identity" of radio in Louisville? Because if you wouldn't support that, you shouldn't support keeping wine out of grocery stores. There is little difference.

And the "protect the kids" thing still hold absolutely no water. Sorry. They sell alcohol in grocery stores already, and allowing beer without allowing wine has no logical argument in its favor. If someone can prove to me that wine in grocery stores would harm kids, I'd love to hear it.

Aaron..ahem..anyone else

For the record:
I dont own the wine shop(these are my views, they are note even aware of this thread), I do manage it. I too have worked on 4th street for the last five years (The Oakroom). I also worked for Highland coffee (in the highlands) and managed the original Java on Stilz and Frankfort Ave. I am not trying to outlaw Starbucks or outlaw the grocery.
I am merely trying to have a local-first perspective. I believe as a citizen, a resident, a person who has a choice... you have an obligation (whether you recognize it or not) to look out for the businesses grown in your backyard.. despite some ostentacious marketing from Seattle or wherever.
Again not trying to outlaw free trade, as it seems some who have fear or paranoia (scary music) may think. I am only sharing my perspective, my consciousness, because I think it is worth it.
I am not worried about children in the grocery.. um I dont listen to satellite or internet radio (though it seems interesting), I do enjoy local radio especially Matt Anthony and Woodrow on the Radio. I would be content with 91.9 on in the shop, if it were up to me. So your not gonna pin some radio biz on me..lol.. jk!

Really we are just regurgitating material on the thread, it comes down to a difference of opinion on whether or not Wine in the Supermarket would have any impact on our local businesses.(and I am not doubting that you embrace local establisments) Peace be with you, Happy Monday!

one other small thought.. i had on my drive in to work. (no not anything profane, we all have those thought on our way to work though). The worst thing we could do..is treat this issue as mediocre. In fact Corporate America has been conning people that way for years, they want you to say " I dont see what the big deal is." They take away lil pieces of communities one mediocre battle at a time. It seems silly till you look at the momentum the past 40 years. There used to be many Local Supermarkets (they didnt just die off or get hit by a comet like Dinosaurs)...and it used to be that if your neighbor had a good idea for a business and was willing to work at it, he/she could succeed (not true anymore, not when playing with the bigs)Mediocrity is a silent, patient, and diligent killer. As a realist I doubt we can stop that tide, but we can try.

one other small thought. The legislation that you want is not possible because it would be unconstitutional.

there is something I want to make clear. I am as far from supporting corporate america as anyone you will ever meet. My entire legal practice is devoted to fighting corporate america. It's what I do for a living. As for my personal life, I buy my music at Ear Extacy, I buy my books at Carmichaels, I buy my coffee at Sunergos & Heine, I buy my wine at Gemeli or Old Town, I buy bread at Blue Dog and donuts at Plehn's, I listen to 91.9, but I don't see banning supermarket sales of wine as the answer to ridding our community of Kroger and Wal-Mart. I just see it as more idiotic, protectionist legislation that isn't needed and will accomplish nothing but perpetuating the stereotype that Kentuckians are morons.

wow.. take er easy.. its only Monday. I am glad you support all those places, that is great. I am just sharing my opinion (my entitled and humble opinion) and responding to Aaron M.

one other small thought. The legislation that you want is not possible because it would be unconstitutional.

what legislation is that?.. lets not put words in my mouth. If the current legislation is unconstitutional, then so be it. I am not proposing changing it.