Welcome to the Louisville Restaurants Forum, a civil place for the intelligent discussion of the local restaurant scene and just about any other topic related to food and drink in and around Louisville.

Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

no avatar
User

Robin Garr

{ RANK }

Forum host

Posts

22999

Joined

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:38 pm

Location

Crescent Hill

Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Robin Garr » Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:32 am

Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

A color cartoon created by Open AI's Dall-E with the prompt: "Cartoon in the classic New Yorker style, depicting a man and a woman sitting at a restaurant table. They are comically struggling with very large menus."
Image

Menus: Can’t live with ‘em. Can’t live without ‘em! You step into a restaurant, take your seat, and pick up the menu. How does this make you feel? Joy at anticipating a tasty meal, or fear that something is about to make you crabby?

Why must menus disappoint us in so many ways, from look and feel to organization and design to the way they communicate? The menu has just one job, and sadly, it doesn’t always get that job done.

Where do menus go wrong? Let us count the ways.

Too hard to see

Pale gray type on a light green background? It’s arty, but it isn’t cool. When your menu designers double down by printing that hundred shades of gray in six-point type, it almost feels as if they’re trying to punk us.

”I’m old,” one friend said. ”I need to be able to read the font size.” Another friend agreed: ”I also like print that is visible without a magnifying glass.”

Romantically dim lighting just makes matters worse. ”I want a menu that I can read without having to get my phone light out,” one friend griped, recalling a Hoosier eatery that used tan text on cream paper. ”It was probably fine in bright light to a 20-something,” they said, ”but not terribly legible in a dimly lit dining room to a 50-something’s eyes.”

Don’t touch that menu!

During the pandemic, a lot of places began using a QR code, that digital labyrinth of mysterious data squares, to whisk us to an online menu with our own smartphone.

”If this is your only menu, I’m out of here,” said one. ”I know I sound like an old lady,” another friend said, :but I hate QR menus. My 18-year-old daughter said it’s definitely not an old lady thing. She hates them too.”

Why the hate? One friend explained: ”I don’t go into a restaurant to get more screen time. I want to escape all the things I use my phone for, whether it’s work, personal business, keeping up with all the kids’ school stuff that only comes via email now. Our entire lives are on our phones. Can’t we get a small reprieve?!”

Another friend put it simply: ”A proper menu is part of the dining experience. QR codes are not.”

Okay, that makes sense to me.

What’s more

Other menu preferences go back to the pandemic, and to ongoing concerns about germs and cooties. I feel for restaurant managers, because not everyone is on the same menu page. Some like single-use paper menus that no one else has shared. Others find that too casual and want something solid, maybe even presented in leather-look covers.

I could only shake my head, befuddled, when one friend demanded laminated menu pages because they’re easy to wipe clean, while another pal doesn’t even want to touch a laminated page because yuk. You can’t please everyone, but if you’re in business serving the public, you really wish you could.

Finally, clearly note allergens and whether a dish is vegan or vegetarian. If a dish is spicy hot, say so! These things matter to people. Oh, yeah, and list your prices, for cripes’ sake!

So many choices!

”Not too many items,” one friend requested, ”It makes it hard to make up my mind if there is too much.” Others agreed. ”Restaurants should have a few items they specialize in, but don’t overcomplicate it,” added another. ”I don’t want to have to browse through 10 pages of menu.”

I agree, kind of. I like variety and I like choice. In my recent visit to Sankalp Indian, for instance, I was stunned at first by its wealth of maybe 200 choices. I love Indian food, so ultimately it made me happy. But I’m glad I thought to look at the online menu at home first, so I could narrow my choices.

What’s more, tradition matters. If I go to a quick-service style Mexican, Indian, or Chinese restaurant, I’m not surprised by a menu with more than 100 choices. I realize that they can accomplish this by having a relative few vegetable and protein choices, largely prepped and ready along with several sauces, noodles, and a giant vat of rice. Just about any of those 100 options can be quickly assembled, tossed into a screaming-hot wok, stir-fried, boxed, and rushed out to the hungry customer.

That works in those settings, but it’s less doable at your fancy dining room or trendy bistro where one expects a bit more personal attention to the dinner plate.

What’s in my dish?

Everyone wants a descriptive menu, but there’s a lot of debate over what that looks like. Don’t be snobby? ”Any mention of ‘dusting’ or ‘hints’ or ‘shadows’ or ‘nuances’ or elite genetic heritage of anything pisses me right off,” said one. ”No information. A menu should include basic description of the dish with the key ingredients,” suggested another.

I hold up the menu at Meesh Meesh in Nulu, one of my favorite new restaurants of 2023, as meeting a lot of my needs: At the time of my visit, it was short but not too short, with five main dishes, a trio or larger plates, and a variety of sides. Ingredients and descriptions were good, not great: ”Amba, jalapeño schug, and herbs” gives us a hint, but only if we know what schug and amba are.

And so …

With a little help from my friends, I could go on and on. Maybe another day I will. Today, though, let’s just leave this word of wisdom to the good folks who run restaurants and plan the bill of fare: Communication is the key. If people can read your menu, understand it, and take away what they wan’t for dinner and why, you’ve done your job. If not, you’ve got a problem, right here in River City, and it starts with M and that stands for menu.

Read this article on LouisvilleHotBytes:
https://www.louisvillehotbytes.com/lets ... e-the-menu

You'll also find this commentary in LEO Weekly online this week:
http://www.leoweekly.com/category/food-drink/
no avatar
User

Mark R.

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

4372

Joined

Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:02 pm

Location

Anchorage, KY

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Mark R. » Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:10 pm

While I was talking to a friend of mine the other day he was telling me about the restaurant in New York that he regularly goes to that has been experimenting with the use of tablets for menus. When you arrive you are handed a tablet with the menu it. When you order the waitstaff collects them, returns them to the hostess stand where they are cleaned and recharged. This seems like a great alternative to paper menus as well as the QR code type menus. The biggest of the other guys he to electronic menus is that they can be very easily kept up to date and can easily be updated with even the daily specials.

It'll be for you to see if this type of menu systems start expanding.
Written using Dragon NaturallySpeaking

"Life is short. Drink the good wine first"
no avatar
User

Jeff Cavanaugh

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1008

Joined

Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:49 am

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Jeff Cavanaugh » Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:33 pm

Somewhat related: When I look at your restaurant's web site, I want to see an accurate version of your current menu (PDF or whatever) and NOT just be forced to page through 27 different sections of your online ordering system to try and figure out what's available. Don't make me use the online ordering system if I'm not trying to place an order.
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

{ RANK }

Forum host

Posts

22999

Joined

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:38 pm

Location

Crescent Hill

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Robin Garr » Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:21 pm

You've got that right, Jeff! I do somewhat blame the IT people that restaurant managers hire to build them a website, but once paid, aren't good at keeping it up in a timely way, while the site is too complex for non-IT restaurant folks to feel comfortable fooling with. It's a dilemma.
no avatar
User

Andrew Mellman

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1697

Joined

Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:33 am

Location

Louisville

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Andrew Mellman » Wed Jan 24, 2024 4:07 pm

Mark R. wrote:While I was talking to a friend of mine the other day he was telling me about the restaurant in New York that he regularly goes to that has been experimenting with the use of tablets for menus. When you arrive you are handed a tablet with the menu it. When you order the waitstaff collects them, returns them to the hostess stand where they are cleaned and recharged. This seems like a great alternative to paper menus as well as the QR code type menus. The biggest of the other guys he to electronic menus is that they can be very easily kept up to date and can easily be updated with even the daily specials.


There are several restaurants in Chicago that hand you a tablet (for food, liquor, or both). I think it's great: wine lists and Bourbon brands can be updated easily, and the food menu in each case has photographs of each dish on the menu (or at least 90+% of the dishes) so you can see what you will be getting and in many cases see for yourself how the dishes are built! You mark your order on the tablet, which is then verified by the server and placed in the kitchen.

Sounds a lot more complex than it is in person . . .
Andrew Mellman
no avatar
User

James Natsis

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1058

Joined

Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:34 pm

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by James Natsis » Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:38 pm

I went to a restaurant downtown about 2 months ago for lunch. The guy told me I had to scan their code to get the menu. I told him that my scanner wasn't working. In addition, I don't like using it.

When I asked for a paper copy, he said they haven't come in yet. So he searched for it on his tablet and showed it to me. I asked him why he doesn't just print a few copies straight off of the website for people like me. The guy who came in right after me did the same thing.

To me, the guy could walk over to Kinkos, make a few copies, and repeat that whenever needed. Its not a fancy place. So a simple sheet of paper would do just fine.
James J. Natsis
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

{ RANK }

Forum host

Posts

22999

Joined

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:38 pm

Location

Crescent Hill

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Robin Garr » Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:48 am

James, I can't argue with your reasoning. I'd be curious to know the restaurant owner's motivation. Too busy? Running such tight margins that he didn't want to pay for printing? Bad mood or bad personality? So many possibilities! :twisted:
no avatar
User

Nathaniel C

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

179

Joined

Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:50 pm

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Nathaniel C » Thu Jan 25, 2024 10:22 am

Jeff Cavanaugh wrote:When I look at your restaurant's web site, I want to see an accurate version of your current menu (PDF or whatever) and NOT just be forced to page through 27 different sections of your online ordering system...

I second this sentiment.
no avatar
User

Carla G

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

3128

Joined

Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:01 am

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by Carla G » Fri Jan 26, 2024 12:56 am

Once in a restaurant I can put up with almost any sort of menu. Deciding on where to go to dine without an easily accessible menu on line with pricing is impossible. And restaurants that rely on a FaceBook page are the worst! I don’t want to scroll through page after page of “…and this is our new wallpaper! Oh look a bridal party! Dad put in our horseshoe pits, won’t that be fun! Doesn’t this look delicious! You have no idea what it is, how often we serve it or how much it costs but hey….”

I hate to sound like a grinch but I need a page with location, address, phone number, hours of operation, a price range and the menus (with prices). And it needs to be kept up to date. I hate it when planning an outing for 6 (and at least one will be vegan/vegetarian/gluten intolerant) , one couple doesn’t want to drive after dark so make it open early or close to their home, one requires fish only, another couple need a full bar not just beer and wine, then we get there only to find out that 1/3 of the menu was deleted 4 months ago.

I don’t know. Maybe Covid taught us that it isn’t that hard to cook at home and that’s why the biz is suffering these changing pains?
"She did not so much cook as assassinate food." - Storm Jameson
no avatar
User

James Natsis

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1058

Joined

Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:34 pm

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by James Natsis » Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:48 am

Robin Garr wrote:James, I can't argue with your reasoning. I'd be curious to know the restaurant owner's motivation. Too busy? Running such tight margins that he didn't want to pay for printing? Bad mood or bad personality? So many possibilities! :twisted:


Aloof and/or lazy!
James J. Natsis
no avatar
User

James Natsis

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1058

Joined

Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:34 pm

Re: Let’s improve the restaurant menu!

by James Natsis » Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:53 am

Carla G wrote:Once in a restaurant I can put up with almost any sort of menu. Deciding on where to go to dine without an easily accessible menu on line with pricing is impossible. And restaurants that rely on a FaceBook page are the worst! I don’t want to scroll through page after page of “…and this is our new wallpaper! Oh look a bridal party! Dad put in our horseshoe pits, won’t that be fun! Doesn’t this look delicious! You have no idea what it is, how often we serve it or how much it costs but hey….”

I hate to sound like a grinch but I need a page with location, address, phone number, hours of operation, a price range and the menus (with prices). And it needs to be kept up to date. I hate it when planning an outing for 6 (and at least one will be vegan/vegetarian/gluten intolerant) , one couple doesn’t want to drive after dark so make it open early or close to their home, one requires fish only, another couple need a full bar not just beer and wine, then we get there only to find out that 1/3 of the menu was deleted 4 months ago.

I don’t know. Maybe Covid taught us that it isn’t that hard to cook at home and that’s why the biz is suffering these changing pains?


Your gripe is legit in my view, Carla. A successful establishment is a synergy between food/beverage, service, cleanliness, proper information, ambiance, etc. If one is lacking, others better be strong!
James J. Natsis

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefsbot, Claudebot, YandexBot and 4 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign