Noise and Dining... and Two Questions...

We had a lovely dinner last night at Basa. We were with friends and the food was beautiful, delicious, delightful... but we could barely hear each other. The sound system was not loud - eventually I couldn't hear it at all, nor was a big, shouting group anywhere, but the acoustics were such that we had to shout through the whole meal. I yelled at the person across from me, and my wife next to me, but could not really talk with the friend diagonal to me.

I know restaurants, particularly those aimed at young people, try to make a place stay somewhat noisy... something about, uh, ambiance. But many places we go are sometimes nearly unbearable. I started a topic before about music; now I want to start a conversation about its opposite (or, sometimes, compatriot) noise.

We are concerned because next week we will have friends from our ex-home, Rochester NY, and we want to showcase Louisville's vibrant food scene. One of our friends is deaf in one ear and has trouble in particularly noisy locations.

So, two questions: Where can we go? Do people really like noise with their food?

I have a friend who is an acoustical engineer who does nothing but study and design acoustical spaces for restaurants, theatres, Doctor offices, recording studios....et al. As someone who suffers from hearing loss from years of sirens and airhorns I appreciate his work. Uncovered concrete and wood floors reflect a huge amount of ambient sound. Ditto walls sans fabric or half walls that funnel and amplify sound in certain directions.

In my opinion Park Place on Main has a great space for intimate conversation with excellent food.

[Robin Garr]

Where can we go? Do people really like noise with their food?

Ken, it certainly does seem that a noisy scene is actually sought after by some local places, and I guess you're right that it's an ambience thing. I try to be reasonably forgiving, as some places I really like (Basa for one, Cafe Lou Lou for another) are just plain loud, and I try not to be put off by the decibels even if I might wish it wasn't quite that extreme.

I think some of the higher-end places tend to be a little more "discreet." I don't usually think of the Oakroom, Vincenzo's or 610 as noisy, for instance. Or Park Place, as has been mentioned. Equus is elegant and sedate. We were in Corbett's on opening night and there was a lot of excitement, but I don't recall it as ear-shattering.

Of course there are degrees of noise. I haven't gone in with a decibel meter, but some of the mid-price places I enjoy don't strike me as horribly noisy. Saffron's? L&N Wine Bar and Uptown Cafe haven't been ear-shattering in my experience, although it's probably best to ask for a table away from the bar area.

Point is, anyway, that this seems to be both a product of popularity but also intentional to some degree, and it is possible to choose places that strive for a more quiet atmosphere.

My list isn't meant to be exhaustive, just a few random picks. I hope others chime in with more good advice.

Cafe Metro has always been my go-to place when I have a group of folks in town who don't know each other. It's a great place for conversation.

Ken,

We had the same experience at our first, and so far only, visit to Basa - excruciatingly loud on a Friday night. We've vowed to return only on a weeknight when we believe there would be a better chance of conversation without screaming.

You might consider Uptown Cafe (already mentioned) or August Moon. Higher price point places with a lower decibel level include Club Grotto, Asiatique (in the second floor dining room), and Primo.

Disagree about August Moon. Love the food, but always get carry out because the acoustics are horrible. You can hear conversations of people across the room.

How much is this an issue of acoustics, or just plain loud people? We were at Cafe Lou Lou's recently. Admitted, before we left the house I told my wife, let's go to Cafe Lou Lou & yell at each other. Once there, we were seated in a booth. We could not "hear" the people at the 4-table next to us, or the booths on either side, but two tables away & another two booths away, you could hear everything those people discussed, including over the top laughter that drew looks from the entire dining area, it was that loud. Other people, just wanting to be heard at their own table, "yelled" louder. We had to raise our voices just to decide on an appetizer. Before you knew it, the entire place was a loud roar.

I think its the people, not just the acoustics. How many times have you sat at a table and "listened" not eavesdropped, no need, to an entire conversation about someone's wedding, the big game, their trip, etc.?

There's an old comment that Europeans think Americans are loud. We toured southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland & Venice last September. Maybe we were lucky, but we never had the noise levels at Cafe Lou Lou, The Irish Rover, El Mundo, Havana Rumba, etc. We love all those places and will continue to go to them, but know that we will have to "yell" to hear each other.

I think its as much, or more, the people, not just the acoustics

Thanks for the great responses, folks (and thanks to our host for his personal response to my wife's e-mail about the same issue).

As for LouLou, I have to say I think it's the acoustics. Now that they're about four blocks from our house, it's something of a default eating place: we go all the time. It's always loud, just as it was on Frankfort. They tried some baffling at the new place, but it doesn't work. Maybe their patrons are loud, but I think it's in the architecture... and that the noise thing is something restaurants actually want. It's that a-din-is-desirable belief that I don't understand.

Do twenty-somethings have a special hearing/interpretive apparatus that makes talking over noise something pleasurable - or is it that their chatter is so inane that noise makes it sound smart?

Ken,

Napa River isn't too bad for some ambience. Where did you live in Rochester? Resided in Fairport for 20 years. Left in 1999. Don't miss the cold, snow, 9 months of winter etc, not to mention the lack of good restaurants compared to Louisville

Lived in the city - East Side - for 35 years, returned here to my hometown 2 years ago. Leaving Rochester and coming to Louisville was like jumping off a sinking ship and landing on a yacht. Kodak and Xerox are fading away; the downtown, despite a few interesting projects, is ghost-like, and everyone smugly refuses to talk about any kind of metro cooperation. When we have Rochester friends visit and we take them to great places to eat, show them the developments popping up, tell them about music and parks and art here, they just say, "Well, Louisville is a lot bigger, isn't it?" And we say, "No, it's nearly the same size. Rochester just acts small - like the collection of small-minded suburbs it is."

Sorry... just venting. I miss the weather there actually - loved the blizzards and white-outs and poetry of snow. We miss friends. I don't miss the things Rochesterians are supposed to miss - Abbott's, white hots, and other unimpressive food. But I do miss good bagels and Jewish rye.

Doesn't (or didn't) Rochester have a Cordish development downtown similar to 4th Street Live here? I went there for a jazz convention once and it was supposedly the next, newest, biggest thing, but was just a bunch of uninspiring chain restaurants designed to make tourists feel at home. I think it tanked, but I'm not sure.

The Cordish investment in High Falls is down to a couple of dinky places, and they'll probably be gone soon. Mayor Duffy said just last month, " "I believe it's time to look at the stark reality that the future of High Falls may not be as an entertainment destination."

Not even Cordish's cheap bag of tricks could get people to come into the city. But Louisville's culture is perfect for development - from the generic, touristy and twenty-something schlock of Cordish to the class of Museum Plaza , Proof and 21C. People here think in terms of the wider community; they like to be with each other, to talk and party and be seen. There is a sense of place and a sense of ownership and pride in our food, our architecture, our art and music. Look at this forum: there's nothing like this in Rochester. And it's because of the politically, culturally divided relationship of the suburbs and city that make up their county, Monroe - which has 18 distinct municipalities: 18 school districts, school boards... most suburban municipalities have their own fire and police departments. And no one in the rest of the county feels ownership, responsibility, or even interest in the city proper.

When I go on this rant to native Louisvillians, they frequently don't get my fervor about the place. Perhaps you have to leave, live somewhere else, and return to get the beauty and vibrancy of this town. We have soul here, and it's not that common a property.

As a native Louisvillian, I have incredible civic pride but routinely endure ribbing from other natives who don't see what you and I see. I frequently get grief from long time friends (other natives, even) for the mere fact that I've never seen the need to leave! BTW, I really like Rochester - of course, I've always been in warm weather, but I love Eastman and there are lots of cool cultural things going on there related to that world-famous music school.

And I don't have anything against Cordish - they do what they do, and for the most part, they seem to do it well. As someone who helped to launch the Keep Louisville Weird campaign, however, I have very strong feelings about what really builds communities and what doesn't, and chain restaurants (or stores) aren't a big part of the community building vision.

4th Street Live has actually done something amazing - they've managed to attract that 20-something East End demographic downtown on a regular basis - and my hat is off to them. I meet friends at Friday's at least annually because it's convenient to their hotel, and outside of the fact that they did away with most of my fave mushroom dishes, no complaints. Again, it is what it is.

Louisville has so much more to offer than the popular chain spots, though, which is one of the reasons I'm so glad forums like this exist.

Lived in the city - East Side - for 35 years, returned here to my hometown 2 years ago. Leaving Rochester and coming to Louisville was like jumping off a sinking ship and landing on a yacht. Kodak and Xerox are fading away; the downtown, despite a few interesting projects, is ghost-like, and everyone smugly refuses to talk about any kind of metro cooperation. When we have Rochester friends visit and we take them to great places to eat, show them the developments popping up, tell them about music and parks and art here, they just say, "Well, Louisville is a lot bigger, isn't it?" And we say, "No, it's nearly the same size. Rochester just acts small - like the collection of small-minded suburbs it is."

Sorry... just venting. I miss the weather there actually - loved the blizzards and white-outs and poetry of snow. We miss friends. I don't miss the things Rochesterians are supposed to miss - Abbott's, white hots, and other unimpressive food. But I do miss good bagels and Jewish rye.

Forgot about the bagels plus I must confess I miss the wings. There is nowhere outside of Western NY that knows how to make them. And for crying out loud stop serving them with RANCH dressing

My son and a bunch of friends once drove the 70 miles to Buffalo through a snow storm just to get some Anchor Bar wings (the sacred birthplace of Buffalo wings). By the time they got there the blizzard had closed the bar!

And yes, folks, the proper condiment is blue cheese dressing.

Speaking of wings, the tandoori wings at Shalimar are pretty darn good - though unpredictable... sometimes dry and almost crunchy, other times gooey. But always tasty.

Wait a minute... I'm supposed to be talking about noise.

DID YOU ALL HEAR ME?