McCormick & Schmick's Seafood Restaurant

I have to disagree with you on this one, I think it's good for Louisville.

Well, hey now, I'm not so much picking on M&S specifically. I've been to the ones in Anchorage and Seattle, and I think they're very nice.

I do fear that the bigger a chain gets, the more "variable" it becomes. It's really hard to escape the hand of the bean counter.

But in this particular context, I'm whining more about the general trend by city fathers to go ga-ga over national brands and chains while seemingly almost deliberately putting obstacles in the way of local independents in their efforts to compete.

Agreed mate. Thankfully Louisville is fiercely protective of it's independent culture. I think will be fine.

That's not what Chris wrote nor what I agreed with.

Okay, fair enough, but isn't that where it tends to lead? Maybe I'm just cranky, but I feel kind of sad when I see the same store logos in Louisville and Atlanta and Chicago and New York and the Champs-Elysees in Paris and Miraflores in Lima and Makati in the Philippines, ya know?

My response to that would be that it is important to have a blend of both. We have places like Proof, Primo, Rivue, Vincenzo's, Melillio's etc. downtown that provide a local flavor, but don't really drive business when put on a brochure or mailer to conventioners etc.

Throw in a few national chains and maybe regional chains like Jeff RUby's and it makes for a blend that can provide appeal to a wide variety of people, which should be the goal.

I completely disagree that it is good to have only small or local businesses, but I agree that we do not want a homogenous, bland group of only national chains.

They complement each other. They even feed off each other. The combination of both can be very powerful.

[Robin Garr]

I completely disagree that it is good to have only small or local businesses,

And I, in turn, did not say that.

but I agree that we do not want a homogenous, bland group of only national chains.

They complement each other. They even feed off each other. The combination of both can be very powerful.

Sounds like we agree on more than we disagree on, then. But I'm still concerned that it <i>appears</i> that there's some dearth of imagination in the downtown development community when it comes to luring chains as opposed to keeping Louisville weird.

Austin TX is the perfect example of both.... it's where "keeping it weird" originated from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Austin_Weird

I see louisville heading in the same direction as a great city like Austin.

I completely disagree that it is good to have only small or local businesses,

And I, in turn, did not say that.

but I agree that we do not want a homogenous, bland group of only national chains.

They complement each other. They even feed off each other. The combination of both can be very powerful.

Sounds like we agree on more than we disagree on, then. But I'm still concerned that it <i>appears</i> that there's some dearth of imagination in the downtown development community when it comes to luring chains as opposed to keeping Louisville weird.

Fair enough.

I think that it takes some convincing to get the national chains to support our local economy, whereas local business and local business owners typically don't need that convinving. They live here already. What is good for our economy is good for them.

If he can bring in an "anchor" tenant, then local business will follow. Look at 4th Street Live. It has spawned a variety of local businesses around it... some successful, some not. Just because they weren't included in the "core" doesn't mean they can't feed off the success. Everyone downtown is benefitting. It's win/win.

I will say... if the government is putting road blocks in front of local businesses wanting to invest, then that is a problem. I have never seen that first hand, and would hope it is not the case, but not offering the same incentives is not the same as putting up a roadblock. It just goes back to my original point.

IMO, Louisville will stay Weird all by itself. We pride ourselves on it.

That's not what Chris wrote nor what I agreed with.

Okay, fair enough, but isn't that where it tends to lead? Maybe I'm just cranky, but I feel kind of sad when I see the same store logos in Louisville and Atlanta and Chicago and New York and the Champs-Elysees in Paris and Miraflores in Lima and Makati in the Philippines, ya know?

Robin, I think you've made the "other side"'s point!

Before, we were Louisville, unique and small. Now, you yourself are putting Louisville in the same sentence as Atlanta, Chicago, and NYC! If a couple of chains can do that, I welcome them with open arms - and, to agree with an earlier point, bringing in a couple of chains that would raise our "status" with the convention trade will bring in even more conventions, many of whose attendees will search out the local, unique, top-rated restaurants, thus helping everyone.

I mean we go to Chicago around three times/month, NYC couple times/year, and we don't eat at Olive Garden, only occasionally (but not frequently) eat at McCormick, but having those does help some convention planners.

My last meal at McCormick & Schmicks in Cincinnati was just plain awful. Now, we only go to sit at the bar and have oysters. Nothing could ever convince me to sit down for a full meal there again. Mitchell's is much better. I also had my first meal at Bonefish. The sides and sauces were laughable, but the grouper was amazing. A very nice piece of fish for the price.

If we're getting a seafood chain, why can't it be a Pappadeaux's.

I went to the location in Atlanta by Perimeter Mall. I ordered the tuna medium rare. It came out so overdone that it was gray throughout - not even a speck of pink. It was dry and tasteless. When I complained, the waiter just shrugged and said that that was how tuna was cooked. I sent the dish back, and, to the restaurant's credit, received one that was about medium. It wasn't very exciting, though, just a pretty good (not top notch) piece of tuna.

Based on that experience, I wouldn't have high hopes for the Louisville location.

Clearly the city would like "high-end" chains in the area surrounding Fourth Street Live. Attract convention business, etc. Similar to the "steak" thread, is there a move to "high-end" seafood chains? We think Mitchell's varies from ok to pretty good...rarely a let down but rarely blown away.

Louisville's eclectic (This "weird" campaign sounds contrived) areas are the older neighborhoods, Old Louisville, Highlands, Frankfort Ave., Butchertown, et al. Personally I don't care what they put in down at Fourth Street Live - it's not a part of the scene that interests me. They might as well put in something that will bring business to town.

I would assume that consistancy in seafood is tough given the variation in availability of raw products - on the other hand we generally have no problem finding top notch sushi here. As mentioned maybe UPS being based here cuts down on shipping time.

I would think that the closer to the source the better the location. The ones in the NW of the states close to the ocean, with access to good fish markets, seem to be the best.

The one in Austin is good though, so I know it can be done. They do have strong competition with "True Lucks Seafood Restaurant" based out of Austin and Isle of Capri FL, so that may make them sharper.

Perhaps with UPS being here, we might be able to get fresh fish. I'm puzzled by Atlanta location though, with it being a FEDEX hub. Who knows?

All I know is that there are very few high end seafood restaurants in Louisville and it would be nice to have another one, especially if it were locally owned.

I feel optimistic that Louisville could do a good job with M&S. There's a lot of highly skilled local talent to pool from.

I would think that the closer to the source the better the location. The ones in the NW of the states close to the ocean, with access to good fish markets, seem to be the best.

This may be the case but I've been to the one in Northern Virginia (near Dulles) and it was very good too. Since there not close to the northwest nor to a major air shipping hub maybe the competition factor has more to do with it? Hopefully the one here will be good.

[Robin Garr]

I would assume that consistancy in seafood is tough given the variation in availability of raw products - on the other hand we generally have no problem finding top notch sushi here. As mentioned maybe UPS being based here cuts down on shipping time.

I don't think having UPS here <i>hurts</i>, but I do think the "distance from saltwater" argument is a little bogus. Particularly in an age of air transportation, inland cities can get fresh fish overnight, and if there's enough consumer interest to justify a high-end market, said fish can be excellent. I've had great fresh seafood in Chicago, Minneapolis and Denver, among other places, so it's not just a Louisville thing.

I can also absolutely testify that neighborhood fish markets in coastal cities (specifically New York) can be pretty darn grim, because only half the battle is getting it there. The other half is having a fishmonger who cares enough to keep his product cold and fresh, not just wiping yesterday's (and last week's) stock down with Clorox to keep the stink at bay.

It sounds like it is up to the standards and efficiency of the company then.

Lets hope if they do come to town, they do it right.

Can someone tell me why a chain, no matter how upscale or trendy, is cause for excitement? Who is it for? Tourists? A notch on the local belt? Gimme our Originals!

Yes to both. It is big for our Convention and Tourism folks to get a name like that. Which is why they are downtown and now in the usual "foodie" locations (though downtown rapidly improving).

Having names like Morton's and M&S is huge for pulling in conventions, meetings etc. Also, downtown companies like them for entertaining associates and customers who are in town.

They aren't really intended for us food lovers.. thought I'm sure they'd be happy to take your money.

Having names like that is definitely a plus for our local economy and status... just like a Nordstrom's would be for retail. IMO, they end up helping local restaurants... a rising tide raises all ships.

Nordstrom's???? Don't tell my wife they are coming here..She already has wayyyy tooooo many shoes....