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What do you think will be the outcome of this lawsuit?

Poll ended at Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:49 pm

The food trucks will win.
3
20%
Metro government/brick-and-mortar restaurants will win.
1
7%
The law will be changed but there will still be some restrictions.
8
53%
Undecided on what the outcome will be.
1
7%
As in most lawsuits the only winners will be the lawyers.
2
13%
 
Total votes : 15
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Leah S

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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Leah S » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:38 am

Jeff Cavanaugh wrote:That's great news! Congrats to all our food truck operators.


Thanks! There was a lot going on that was never reported. Frankly, the original Ordinance was a Constitutional violation on it's face. Cities who have similar rules all over the country are seeing those rules fall.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Leah S » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:39 am

Ryan Rogers wrote:This is bad for brick & mortar restaurants, but if the consumer demands it we’ll all have to evolve.


Respectfully disagree. Because honest competition makes us all better at what we do.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Ryan Rogers » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:51 pm

Leah S wrote:
Ryan Rogers wrote:This is bad for brick & mortar restaurants, but if the consumer demands it we’ll all have to evolve.


Respectfully disagree. Because honest competition makes us all better at what we do.


Here's a hypothetical as to why it's bad for brick & mortar:

Person opens Taco restaurant, invests $XXX,XXX to turn around a building in a pioneering neighborhood, which in turns helps to contribute to that neighborhood.

People like their tacos, business is able to hire more employees, and start to pay off their debt.

Different person opens a Taco Food Truck, invests $XX,XXX to do it.

Food truck sees that a lot of people are going to new hot Taco restaurant to buy tacos. Food truck also makes good tacos. Food truck decides to park outside of that restaurant, and price their products cheaper because they don't have as much overhead.

Cost conscious consumers decide to get tacos from Taco truck instead. Taco Truck takes 20% of the business from Brick & Mortar. Brick & Mortar begins to struggle to pay back bank loans. Brick & Mortar lays off employees. Brick & Mortar closes, and becomes another vacant building in a previously burgeoning neighborhood.

Taco Truck rolls on to the next Taco Brick & Mortar.

This is part of the reason that restaurants typically have Radius Clauses in their leases, so the landlord doesn't rent out the space next door to another taco shop.

It's entirely up to the consumer as to what they want, but I've seen casual dining kill fine dining, only to be killed by fast casual.

The entire market is shifting towards convenience which is why postmates, grubhub, doordash, and ubereats are all in the delivery market.

If the consumer decides that the convenience and price of a food truck is a better value for them than a brick & mortar then they will unknowingly kill brick & mortar restaurants and the socioeconomic benefits that they bring to neighborhoods.

That being said, I really like food trucks and their ability to make more people entrepreneurs at a lower initial investment. Louisville needs a dedicated Food Truck park.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Leah S » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:03 pm

We'd love to have a food truck park if it wasn't prohibited by state Administrative Regulation.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Mark R. » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:03 pm

Ryan Rogers wrote:
Leah S wrote:
Ryan Rogers wrote:This is bad for brick & mortar restaurants, but if the consumer demands it we’ll all have to evolve.


Respectfully disagree. Because honest competition makes us all better at what we do.


Here's a hypothetical as to why it's bad for brick & mortar:

Person opens Taco restaurant, invests $XXX,XXX to turn around a building in a pioneering neighborhood, which in turns helps to contribute to that neighborhood.

People like their tacos, business is able to hire more employees, and start to pay off their debt.

Different person opens a Taco Food Truck, invests $XX,XXX to do it.

Food truck sees that a lot of people are going to new hot Taco restaurant to buy tacos. Food truck also makes good tacos. Food truck decides to park outside of that restaurant, and price their products cheaper because they don't have as much overhead.

Cost conscious consumers decide to get tacos from Taco truck instead. Taco Truck takes 20% of the business from Brick & Mortar. Brick & Mortar begins to struggle to pay back bank loans. Brick & Mortar lays off employees. Brick & Mortar closes, and becomes another vacant building in a previously burgeoning neighborhood.

Taco Truck rolls on to the next Taco Brick & Mortar.

This is part of the reason that restaurants typically have Radius Clauses in their leases, so the landlord doesn't rent out the space next door to another taco shop.

It's entirely up to the consumer as to what they want, but I've seen casual dining kill fine dining, only to be killed by fast casual.

The entire market is shifting towards convenience which is why postmates, grubhub, doordash, and ubereats are all in the delivery market.

If the consumer decides that the convenience and price of a food truck is a better value for them than a brick & mortar then they will unknowingly kill brick & mortar restaurants and the socioeconomic benefits that they bring to neighborhoods.

That being said, I really like food trucks and their ability to make more people entrepreneurs at a lower initial investment. Louisville needs a dedicated Food Truck park.


I certainly have to agree with Leah on this 1, any decent B&M restaurant certainly shouldn't fear a food truck. Food trucks lack many things that B&M restaurants have such as seating, service, etc.

Fast food restaurants possibly have something to fear but other than that a restaurant owner should worry as long as a are good to consumers. If they have good food, good staff, handicap accessibility for everyone and a good atmosphere they're going to draw customers.

I can certainly understand a B&M restaurant wanting a Radius Clause even though they really don't apply in most cases for an independent restaurant since they are not located in shopping plazas etc. where one person owns many side-by-side buildings.

A food truck park imposes many additional problems for a food truck and IMHO are only good idea for special events, not day-to-day operations.
Independent restaurant owners just need to worry about their business models to surely make customers happy and comfortable in their business will be fine. The ones that need to worry are the ones that don't cover all the bases in their day-to-day operations.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Robin Garr » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:47 pm

Leah S wrote:We'd love to have a food truck park if it wasn't prohibited by state Administrative Regulation.

Can you say more about that? How does the ban work?
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Steve P » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:21 pm

If given the choice between patronizing a food truck...ANY food truck...or a brick and mortar restaurant...ANY brick and mortar restaurant...I will NEVER patronize a food truck. Period.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Mark R. » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:28 pm

Steve P wrote:If given the choice between patronizing a food truck...ANY food truck...or a brick and mortar restaurant...ANY brick and mortar restaurant...I will NEVER patronize a food truck. Period.

And your reasoning for this is? There certainly are many local food trucks that serve food that is as good or better than many B&M restaurants as well as serving unique items. A good example would be Lobster Rolls although there are many others too.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Jeff Cavanaugh » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:24 am

I work downtown where there are many food trucks that operate every day. I eat from them occasionally and enjoy it a lot.

But I'm struggling to think of any trucks where the food is both comparable quality and meaningfully cheaper than a B&M restaurant in the same culinary genre. We're not talking about a gas station taco trailer putting Taco Luchador out of business with tacos that are half the price of what TL charges.

Moreover, I and my coworkers walk by all the food trucks to patronize B&M restaurants all the time. The vast majority of the time, actually. When the weather is less than perfect. When we want to sit down. When we don't feel like balancing a styrofoam box on our knees. Heck, I get in my car or hop on the Zbus to go eat BBQ at Feast and Royals more often than I get BBQ from the trucks that park outside my office, because the food and the experience are just better.

I really don't think quality B&M restaurants here have much to fear. From what I've seen, even substandard B&M restaurants don't have that much to fear. Restaurateurs should focus on doing their best work and trust the Louisville dining public to respond in appreciation. Because we do.
Last edited by Jeff Cavanaugh on Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Robin Garr » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:54 am

^^^^
THIS.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Alanna H » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:21 pm

Everything Jeff said.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Mark R. » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:48 pm

Very well said Jeff.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Leah S » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:59 am

Also agree with Jeff. B&M restaurants who have great food and service will be fine. Food trucks who have great food are service will be fine. We just wanted to participate in the free market - freely, without government regulations and private businesses telling us where to park and what to serve. (Plus Metro's Ordinance was pretty clearly a 14th Amendment violation.)
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Ryan Rogers » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:50 am

Leah S wrote:Also agree with Jeff. B&M restaurants who have great food and service will be fine. Food trucks who have great food are service will be fine. We just wanted to participate in the free market - freely, without government regulations and private businesses telling us where to park and what to serve. (Plus Metro's Ordinance was pretty clearly a 14th Amendment violation.)



Interestingly enough, the benefit is greatly towards the food truck with or without government regulations (which we all face).

B&M businesses must operate on private property and they often pay property taxes on that property even if they do not own it - depending on their lease negotiations. These properties often are appraised for hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars.

Food trucks are allowed to park on public property, which is partially funded by the taxes paid by people that lease or own private property, without having to pay the taxes on that public property.

So realistically I'd like to participate in this "free market" where I don't pay property taxes on the land a B&M inhabits, but government regulations tell me that I must.

As I've said time and again, I think food trucks are extremely beneficial for the entrepreneurial spirit of our city, and I think we should do more to support them, but unfettered deregulation based on the hope that people will be noble business owners has historically never worked in this country.
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Re: Food truck lawsuit

by Derrick Dones » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:56 pm

Food truck owners pay property taxes on their vehicles correct?

I understand that there can be a significant difference between the taxes paid by a B&M compared to a food truck. I also understand that B&M's offer quite a few things that most food trucks do not...restrooms, wait-staff, walls and a roof (I've never once eatan at a food trunk in poor weather but have dined at B&M restaurants in rain, sleet and snow.), variety, etc.

I would not disagree with Ryan in that B&M's can deal with larger financial challenges than a food truck, but that is the case regardless of where a truck parks. If property taxes are too daunting, one should consider opening a food truck rather than a B&M. DD
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