"Sanctuary Restaurants" - an idea for Louisville?

well if you want to nit pick, and it would seem you do, if everyone was safe everywhere then we wouldn't need sanctuaries but they aren't so we do.
Yes. Everyone is welcome. White men would be welcome.
Simple enough?

First you denied being smug, only to back off and admit you had contempt for liberals. I appreciate you coming clean about that.

I never said I was smug. As I'm not smug.

And I don't have contempt for liberals in general. Just the one's who view me and mine as so contemptible that sanctuaries must be erected to comfort the traumatised.

"All are welcome" is clear as day. If you feel like you can't accept it, that's on you. Personally, I take it to be push-back against nativists, white nationalists, sexists, xenophobes, and Donald Trump in particular.

You are the king of refuting yourself in two back to back sentences.

Psychological projection, perhaps?

Nope. Direct observation of the president and the freaks I've encountered in real life and the internet. Just yesterday I got in an argument with a Louisville alt-righter who thinks Jews conspire to control world events and so on.

Yes antisemitism is ever ripe; as are charges of antisemitism. Just like those in this tread directed toward Donald Trump who has a Jewish daughter and jewish grandchildren.

So, you run with that and tar a whole class of people. Do you see anything wrong with that?

denigrating half of your fellow citizens as deplorable nativists

God, your strawmen are weak. Where did I say half? There are way too many evil people on the right that have been emboldened by Trump, though.

So, their are some Trump voters who are not deplorable nativists?

For you, patriotism is not working toward a consensus about the nature of immigration...

Blah blah blah. I'm happy to discuss ways the immigration system could be improved, but in the context of right-wing ethnic demagoguery from our president, talk of consensus building is dishonest. You can't build consensus with someone who thinks you're a snake.

Do you mean like the nativists that you condemn. You actually believe that consensus is reached by not including the people you disagree with. Your hypocrisy astounds.

Hey, if Paul Ryan wants to create a path to citizenship so that the cabbages get picked and the horses get tended, I'm all for it. The system is definitely broken.

Yes it is broken. But you only want to consider the solutions that you like, and not even listen to the concerns of the contemptible "nativists".

This isn't just a conversation about 'welcoming people", it is a conversation about how to welcome some while excluding others.

You have fallen down a rabbit hole again. Walk me through your logic: when a church says "Come as you are," who is being excluded?

Except that the sanctuary restaurant movement isn't saying that all are welcome. Their message is one of division and exclusion. As is yours, with all the pushing back against those nativist meanies. You want to exclude some and welcome others, but you don't want to own that position.

But they didn't say something like >that, did they. And you accuse me of >disingenuousness.

You were disingenuous to pretend you weren't acting smug, yeah.

I'm not pretending that I'm not smug. Because I'm not smug.

But, It would be fun to see the cultural firestorm ignited if restaurants started posting scripture. Maybe you should suggest that to the sanctuary restaurant movement?

Sure, why not this:
Deuteronomy 10: 19 You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

THat would be a better message, yes. Maybe you could suggest that to them?

So, If I were to go out and buy a 'Make >America Great Again" shirt, and wear it to a sanctuary restaurant, it is your position that I would be welcomed?

It is my position that all should be welcomed, yes.

So, tell me. Why are you defending the exclusionary Sanctuary Restaurant movement again?

But you would also be in the position of being made to know that the restaurant wasn't owned/operated by nativists or white nationalist monsters. If that level of cosmopolitanism makes you uncomfortable, I suggest you toughen up.

Again with the back-to-back self refuting sentences.

So, now you acknowledge that the Sanctuary Restaurant movement is about making people you disagree with uncomfortable. Nothing says welcome better than telling a whole class of customers that if you come here, we want to make you uncomfortable. Instead of trying to pretend that all are welcome, why don't you just own the divisiveness that is the Sanctuary Restaurant movement?

As an aside: that rhetorical "shot/chaser" thing and the "Orwell how-to manual" are both recycled, right? Why don't you try writing in your own original voice, see how it feels to escape the dittohead hive mind?

I thought about doing it in the form of a Top Ten list, but changed my mind. The shoulders of giants, etc.

well if you want to nit pick, and it would seem you do, if everyone was safe everywhere then we wouldn't need sanctuaries but they aren't so we do.
Yes. Everyone is welcome. White men would be welcome.
Simple enough?

Do you really think that people are in danger at restaurants? Or is it more that some folks might get hurt feelings about something or other? Iggys says I should just toughen up. Do you suppose that this might be a universal prescription?

[Robin Garr]

So, now it's only white guys that will be excluded from sanctuary?

I think we're starting to see Steve's llittle problem here now ...

I have plenty of teddy bears and pacifiers if needed

So, now it's only white guys that will be excluded from sanctuary?

I think we're starting to see Steve's llittle problem here now ...

Did you forget to add misogynistic and antisemitic in there? Don't hold back now!

[Robin Garr]

Did you forget to add misogynistic and antisemitic in there? Don't hold back now!

Nah, you played the white card, so I figured I'd double down. If you really are a Trumpfoon, though, chances are the other shoes fit, too.

It seems that some people read the article and are, whatever side, acknowledging the nuances of the situation, trying to see the view from other sides, and understanding what one can. And those points are being overlooked and drowned out by people shouting past one another, without any hope of convincing the other of his/her point of view. This thread is a lot like America.

Did you forget to add misogynistic and antisemitic in there? Don't hold back now!

Nah, you played the white card, so I figured I'd double down. If you really are a Trumpfoon, though, chances are the other shoes fit, too.

Carla is the one who first mentioned white guys, but don't let that stop your narrative.

Steve, you keep coming back to this absurd fallacy that "if all are welcome, then I am not welcome." Why do you think this? What social boundaries suddenly pop up at an "all-welcome" restaurant that aren't already in effect everywhere else? How can you make this illogic comprehensible to people outside your head?

I never said I was smug. As I'm not smug. And I don't have contempt for liberals in general. Just the one's who view me and mine as so contemptible that sanctuaries must be erected to comfort the traumatised.

You occupy many points on the spectrum, from smug to condescending to contemptuous. If you want to split hairs between those concepts, have at it.

You are the king of refuting yourself in two back to back sentences.

Nope. It is perfectly possible to be welcomed as well as to be informed about who your hosts are.

Just like those in this tread directed toward Donald Trump who has a Jewish daughter and jewish grandchildren.

Huh? I never called Trump anti-Semitic. But Trump has certainly emboldened all kinds of Nazis like the alt-right, which is rotten to the core with anti-semitic scum.

So, you run with that and tar a whole class of people.

Cite? Which class is that, O mind reader? Beyond that, what's your argument here -- that categories of people can't vote for something evil, backwards, or oppressive? Because that happens all the time, in all countries, everywhere. It is not special at all.

So, their are some Trump voters who are not deplorable nativists?

Sure. But there are no Trump voters who don't bear some responsibility for empowering and rewarding nativism, no. Trump voters aren't children. Personal responsibility applies to their choice, and they are susceptible to human weaknesses, such as falling for a conman demagogue's lies about scapegoats and easy answers, the same as everyone is. But since I take their concerns seriously, I am not going to patronizingly pretend all they care about is "economic insecurity," either, the way rightwing PC orthodoxy euphemizes it.

Do you mean like the nativists that you condemn. You actually believe that consensus is reached by not including the people you disagree with. Your hypocrisy astounds.

Nah. I think we can seek policy consensus, but not on the subject of demagoguing ethnic groups and refugees. Evil is non-negotiable.

Yes it is broken. But you only want to consider the solutions that you like, and not even listen to the concerns of the contemptible "nativists".

Spare me your mind-reading, and I'll spare you my speculation about why you're only comfortable in restaurants that aren't welcoming to all. I'll listen to solutions and concerns if they are good, but again, ethnic demagoguery is evil and non-negotiable. If Ryan/McConnell/Trump have good ideas, great. Hey, speaking of conservatives feigning sanctimony about giving the other side fair consideration, did you vote for Mitch McConnell?

Except that the sanctuary restaurant movement isn't saying that all are welcome. Their message is one of division and exclusion. As is yours, with all the pushing back against those nativist meanies. You want to exclude some and welcome others, but you don't want to own that position.

You're glitching again, Steve. Everyone is welcome. But all customers will walk in informed that their hosts are not passive in the face of evil. Being welcomed is not the same thing as being coddled.

So, now you acknowledge that the Sanctuary Restaurant movement is about making people you disagree with uncomfortable.

It is inevitable that a democratic, pluralistic, cosmopolitan society will make reactionaries uncomfortable. For example, there are definitely lots of conservative Americans who are not on board with the opening words of the Declaration of Independence. Those people are welcome like everyone else, but they certainly don't have an absolute right to be coddled in their white nationalist, reactionary Breitbart conservative bubble because again, being welcomed =/= being coddled.

I quit, no more of this crap from the left. I can be supportive of LGTBQ, Blacks, muslims, immigrants, etc. and still have reasons to support "our" president. The last eight years, I watched my quality of life, my bank account, etc., reduced by Obama's policies, but he was still "my" president. I felt the same way about Bill Clinton also and both Bush's' . I am tired of being labeled a bigot, sexist, racist, homophobe just because I wish Trump well.

I could cite endless reasons why there is a hypocrisy here on the vitriol against Trump when others got a pass. But it would fall on purposely deaf ears. The sky is not falling. In my opinion, George W. screwed the country up in some aspects, as did Barrack Obama, and I have heard no intelligent reason given, that isn't tainted by left propaganda, to think that Trump will destroy America.

The immigration debate is different for me. I feel we should deport any illegals who are breaking laws excluding the law broken to make them here illegally. So there would be no need for sanctuary restaurants. We can spout left and right talking points back and forth, but that is for a political forum, not a restaurant forum.

Robin, as a forum moderator, you should be non-partisan, but yet your political leanings are on full display. I think this was a mistake to bring this whole topic up for debate as you know your audience and know the vitriol it would induce. Hopefully you overlooked that or couldn't foresee that. But using the white card insult, that was as juvenile as a "Yo mama" joke. Is the white card even a thing?

[Robin Garr]

Robin, as a forum moderator, you should be non-partisan, but yet your political leanings are on full display. I think this was a mistake to bring this whole topic up for debate as you know your audience and know the vitriol it would induce. Hopefully you overlooked that or couldn't foresee that. But using the white card insult, that was as juvenile as a "Yo mama" joke. Is the white card even a thing?

Sorry, Rick. This is too important. I really don't even want to hear from anyone who thought it would be a good idea to vote for Trump. Our country is in danger because too many people let themselves be conned into supporting this man-child, and now we're in a position too much like Germany in the early 1930s. Silence is dangerous.

Applause to Iggy for laying it all out more clearly and with less anger than I'm willing to muster. I've got nothing more to say in this thread, but I hope Louisville's better restaurants will embrace the sanctuary concept in spite of the deplorables.

"I really don't even want to hear from anyone who thought it would be a good idea to vote for Trump."

This pretty much sums up why Hillary lost. The left is so out of touch living in their bubble.

I do agree Sanctuary Restuarant are a great idea in some cases. Maybe if they had them in some Middle Eastern countries and were true bomb-proof safe zones, all those Muslim men, women and children wouldn't have been killed by the drone strikes during President Obama's terms.

Robin, as a forum moderator, you should be non-partisan, but yet your political leanings are on full display. I think this was a mistake to bring this whole topic up for debate as you know your audience and know the vitriol it would induce. Hopefully you overlooked that or couldn't foresee that. But using the white card insult, that was as juvenile as a "Yo mama" joke. Is the white card even a thing?

Sorry, Rick. This is too important. I really don't even want to hear from anyone who thought it would be a good idea to vote for Trump. Our country is in danger because too many people let themselves be conned into supporting this man-child, and now we're in a position too much like Germany in the early 1930s. Silence is dangerous.

Applause to Iggy for laying it all out more clearly and with less anger than I'm willing to muster. I've got nothing more to say in this thread, but I hope Louisville's better restaurants will embrace the sanctuary concept in spite of the deplorables.

Sorry that my opinion no longer matters or counts, that you don't even want to hear from people like me. I thought this was LouisvilleHotbytes.com not Moveon.org.

I wasn't conned, I personally knew someone at Benghazi during the terrorist attacks, that is why Hillary wouldn't get my vote. I will say again that the sky is not falling and all these worries you all have are ridiculous to think they will come to pass.

For the record, I am not against the sanctuary concept, I just don't know if there is an actual need, at least here, but the whole topic got sidetracked and hijacked.

Aside from this, thank you for your insight into the local dining scene and your contribution to journalism, and your help professionally. I will never darken your door or your website with my point of view ever again.

When I posted my thoughts early in this conversation I was pointing out that it might happen in restaurants that became sanctuary restaurants. I didn't realize it would happen here on the forums, I knew that we all had our own political thoughts but I thought we were all relatively open-minded. Just imagine what will happen in a business if a discussion like this breaks out, if we can't be civil here I don't want to see it happen in a public place like a restaurant.