The Guardian on women servers

"At law school, lecturers love to remind their students that they will be entering a boys’ club. In parliament, it’s the same story: watch five minutes of question time and you’ll see it. So maybe we shouldn’t have been so shocked last year when Caroline Tan brought the “boys’ club” of the medical profession to everyone’s attention. Or this year, when Erin Riley experienced backlash after calling out sexism in sport. Yet another conglomerate of educated, middle-class white men were forming a boys’ club, to the detriment of women." Continued below -

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... y-waitress

[Robin Garr]

Interesting article, TP. Thanks for sharing. I have to say it has the ring of truth, but I've also shared it on social media asking the opinions of local chefs and servers, men and women in addition to this worthy forum's responses.

I will admit that I'm guilty of not visiting your Facebook page much - need to do some more often!

[Robin Garr]

I will admit that I'm guilty of not visiting your Facebook page much - need to do some more often!

I put it on the HotBytes page, too ... although usually anything that's there is mirrored here.

Making this a gendered problem is counter productive. If you want to forward more professional environments that is great, but to single out one gender as the only offender and one gender as the only victim is counter productive and sexist. Men can't be offended or sexually harassed? Only "boy's clubs" can be crude, and intimidate people? There are only females being harmed by unprofessional behavior? If the issue exists, it exists for everyone. If something is universally wrong, then it has to effect everyone universally. It is a weaker argument to make something a gendered problem and not a universal one. It also makes it more difficult for male victims of sexual harassment to speak out, because not only are they not believed, they are emasculated for not "manning up" "toughening up" or just plain "being grateful for the attention". Worse they could be told that the "boy's club exists" and this grants them special privileges and they can't have issues to speak of.

[Robin Garr]

Making this a gendered problem is counter productive.

I hear you, Adriel, and certainly I agree that you can't line up the issue 100 percent with gender. In general, though, men exerting power over women is a thing, and I point you to the Trumpengroper as just one for'instance. Or people who see black men killed by police and yell "ALL lives matter!" There's a real issue here, and pointing out that there are plenty of exceptions is legitimate, but it doesn't make the issue go away.

Making this a gendered problem is counter productive.

There's a real issue here, and pointing out that there are plenty of exceptions is legitimate, but it doesn't make the issue go away.

Agreed, but sexually biased coverage of the issue supported with anecdotes from one gender not done in the spirit of equality, nor does it address the issue fully. It also will only speak to the choir. Misogynist owners, chefs, etc will dismiss this out of hand. It does not address issues they will care about to actually provoke significant changes. You tell a guy who wants a boys club he is successfully weeding out females who won't play along, is not persuasive, it's a pat on the back. There is significant evidence that shows people double down on bad notions when confronted in this way (Trump campaigners is a perfect example, remember 'deplorables'). I agree this is important, but does this piece help or hinder? Making this a gender clash, and not a common fight is not helpful imo.

Make this a piece on how workplace harrassment effects bottom line. How it destroys morale, how it effects the gap between front of house and back of house... show some numbers, take a poll, do a survey... interview a chef with real standards or who has dealt with this and how... interview an actual waittress who has faced patron harrassment so we can sympathize with her...now you got something. This is just an axe grinding opinion piece otherwise.

[Robin Garr]

Agreed, but sexually biased coverage of the issue supported with anecdotes from one gender not done in the spirit of equality, nor does it address the issue fully. It also will only speak to the choir.

All true, but I think that's what she wants in this personal essay. It doesn't cover the whole field. It's not rigorous or thorough. But it lays out her experience and invites conversation and maybe draws more attention an issue, and that's okay. An editorial doesn't have to be exhaustive to make its point.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Adriel. You make good points. I'm just saying that she's hurt by her experiences and suggesting that they may not be uncommon in the industry. I've been around long enough that I buy that, even though I also know lots of men and women in the industry who are not like that.

Anyone that's spent even a small amount of time working in restaurants should be offended enough by this to call bullcrap. Everything that she's mentioned in this article as an example of sexual harassment or unprofessional behavior are things that both male and female employees do in restaurants. I worked with a waitress back home who was the crudest, most sexually harassing person I've ever experienced in any facet of life. She was known to keep plastic portion bags of ice in the ice machine and would sneak up behind line cooks while in the middle of rush and put them down the front of their pants and hold them on their crotches. She'd latch her free arm around their shoulders from the back in order to hold on longer while they tried to wriggle free from her grasp. I've never once worked with a man in a restaurant that thought it was acceptable to put his hand down the front of a female coworkers pants.

The truth of the matter is that this industry has forever attracted some of the dredges of society. That's lead to a very different type of culture flourishing in restaurants than you'll find in an office or a retail chain store. Some people just aren't "built for this work." It takes a thick skin and a different type of attitude to be succesful and excel in this business. Both man and woman.

Something here that brings up a related topic that I feel should be addressed is the wage disparity in the hospitality industry. Women hold a majority of the front of house positions in most every restautant. The fact that one whole area of the restaurant(FOH)can perform about 40% of the work compared to their BOH counterparts and make hundreds of dollars more a week is something that liberals and those that argue for wage equality never seem to address. When it's possible for a cute young woman in a short cut shirt and tight jeans to rake in a thousand dollars over a weekend, while many line cooks have to work 2 full time jobs to come close to that, things really need to be looked at seriously and reevaluated.

[Robin Garr]

Something here that brings up a related topic that I feel should be addressed is the wage disparity in the hospitality industry.

Absolutely. Bring it. Might throw in the exemption of waitstaff from the minimum wage while we're at it ...