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Mark Allgeier

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by Mark Allgeier » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:55 am

This is a very interesting subject. I haven't read Garrett Olivers book as Roger has quoted but I have met him a couple of times honestly I'm more of a Larry Bell fan. As for Chef Dean C. I have worked in a few busy kitchens(including my own) and to be honest puttin back a cold schwiller after a rush is more compared to drinking a gatorade. I feel bad for him he probably thinks he's really being watched( paparazi style). As for me we keep cold natty light on hand occasionly to replenish.(No reason in letting the staff drink to much of the nectar) However if you want to get down to it. Mass produced beer okay, Guiness, Heineken, Sam Smith etc.(In my opinon these guys don't hold a candle to a fine crafted sour though) Now lets get down to whats mass produced in America. Some of you may not like this."There award winning"

Great American Beer Festival 2007 "for what its worth"

Miller Brewing Co. total of 7 medals
including Gold for MGD and Gold for Icehouse.

Pabst Blue Ribbon total of 4 medals
including Gold for Lone Star and Gold for Old Mill Light
Old Style took home a silver for American style Cream/Light Lager
(sorry Cubs Fans)

And the list goes on "sigh"

Drink Local (thats why for the most part we only carry our own)

As for Pizza its like Beer it goes good with anything

Cheers--Mark Allgeier
Cumberland Brews

P.S. Lexington Brewing Co. 2 silver medals/ky bourbon barrel & ky weissbier You Go Lexington!!
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Robin Garr

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by Robin Garr » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:00 pm

Mark Allgeier wrote:Great American Beer Festival 2007 "for what its worth"

Miller Brewing Co. total of 7 medals
including Gold for MGD and Gold for Icehouse.

Pabst Blue Ribbon total of 4 medals
including Gold for Lone Star and Gold for Old Mill Light
Old Style took home a silver for American style Cream/Light Lager
(sorry Cubs Fans)

And the list goes on "sigh"


Mark, unless things have changed a lot since back in the late '80s and early '90s, when I used to judge at the GABF, they have separate categories that only fit "industrial" beer, and let those guys compete agains their peers and only against their peers. This seemed to make everyone happy. GABF got good money from CoorsBudMiller as sponsors, and they didn't have to embarrass themselves by competing against micros. I doubt this situation has altered much. ;)

Drink Local (thats why for the most part we only carry our own)


Works for me, a lot of the time! I might say "drink artisanal," though ... there's some great local stuff and some great American micros from other parts of the nation and some imports out there, too. But life's too short to drink bad beer (or wine).
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Brett Davis

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by Brett Davis » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:01 pm

Robin Garr wrote:Actually, Brett, I don't think that's the case at all. I can't think of a restaurant in the city that does with wine what Roger does with beer. Everybody throws on at least a Beringer White Zin and a Mondavi Coastal Merlot or whatever, just to make it easy for the people who insist on that kind of wine. Just about everybody lets Brown-Forman pressure them into carrying a lot of Bolla and Fetzer.


You need t get out more Robin or maybe I do. L&N, Primo, Basa, Lilly's, Maido, 211 Clover, 610 Magnolia...etc.

I do not believe they are guilty of the above.
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Robin Garr

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by Robin Garr » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:13 pm

Brett Davis wrote:You need t get out more Robin or maybe I do. L&N, Primo, Basa, Lilly's, Maido, 211 Clover, 610 Magnolia...etc.

I do not believe they are guilty of the above.

Brett, I totally agree that all those places named (and many more) have outstanding wine lists.

I do believe, however, that virtually all of them carry at least one or two White Zins and other very low-end, mass-market "industrial" wines - the grape-juice equivalent of Bud, Miller and Coors - at the low end of their lists.

I don't say that's necessarily a bad thing, for all the reasons that others have enumerated in defending a restaurant's right to sell Bud Light. But I will say that if I see a restaurant that does NOT offer a White Zin or Mondavi Coastal (or Bud Light), I'm impressed - and it rarely if ever happens.
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Mark Allgeier

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by Mark Allgeier » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:36 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
Mark Allgeier wrote:Great American Beer Festival 2007 "for what its worth"

Miller Brewing Co. total of 7 medals
including Gold for MGD and Gold for Icehouse.

Pabst Blue Ribbon total of 4 medals
including Gold for Lone Star and Gold for Old Mill Light
Old Style took home a silver for American style Cream/Light Lager
(sorry Cubs Fans)

And the list goes on "sigh"


Mark, unless things have changed a lot since back in the late '80s and early '90s, when I used to judge at the GABF, they have separate categories that only fit "industrial" beer, and let those guys compete agains their peers and only against their peers. This seemed to make everyone happy. GABF got good money from CoorsBudMiller as sponsors, and they didn't have to embarrass themselves by competing against micros. I doubt this situation has altered much. ;)

Drink Local (thats why for the most part we only carry our own)


Works for me, a lot of the time! I might say "drink artisanal," though ... there's some great local stuff and some great American micros from other parts of the nation and some imports out there, too. But life's too short to drink bad beer (or wine).
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Roger A. Baylor

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by Roger A. Baylor » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:54 pm

Geez, take one evening off line to enjoy the arrival of the New Year and everything spirals ...

To be honest, I'm still reading the recent posts, although permit me to note from the outset that Brett's notion of wine and beer pairings with food is excellent, and of course I'm for it. I think we can work through the legal issues, which of course are valid considerations.

As an aside, I acknowledge my responsibility to take the lead and advocate, and I wouldn't have it any other way because the educational component is something I truly cherish about what I do.

I just wish there were more time for leading and advocating. Time's the major constraint. I was involved in beer/food pairings perhaps 8 times last year, with another dozen or so straight beer tastings, another dozen festival gigs ... on top of the daily grind ... and all "work" and no play makes Roger a cranky dude (some would say there's no discernable difference).

Consequently, it still seems to me that the very best use of my time is do the finest job possible with the beer at the pub on a daily basis, in the hope that the results, over time, will be palpable and influential to others who can then run with their own balls using the knowledge accrued. In short, here's the theory and my chosen means of practice -- now you apply it where you are, add your own twists, and the tide rises for all of us.

Given this, I suppose one thing that still puzzles me after all these years is that having endeavored to provide this daily example of now things might be with beer, so many people in the business look at it and are incapable getting it. They say something along the lines of: "That's great, but it doesn't apply to what I'm doing," or "it wouldn't work with my customers," or "what do you have against the beer that I drink, you stuck up bastard?"

Well, all these things were said fifteen years ago, and we've managed to make it work ... in a "pizza joint" in parochial New Albany, and to reiterate what I wrote earlier, is it believable at all to argue that what will work in a New Albanian pizza joint won't work with the demographics of the clientele at a top table? But, as Brett astutely pointed out, few really try to answer the question, but rather read into it their own interpretations.

But asking these questions is part of being a gadfly, and being a gadfly is part of the educational component ... and education certainly is necessary if you want to succeed in selling good beer, good wine, good food or good "craic."

Thanks for the conversation, everyone.
Roger A. Baylor
New Albanian Brewing Company &
NABC Bank Street Brewhouse
New Albany, Indiana
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Mark Allgeier

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by Mark Allgeier » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:02 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
Mark Allgeier wrote:Great American Beer Festival 2007 "for what its worth"

Miller Brewing Co. total of 7 medals
including Gold for MGD and Gold for Icehouse.

Pabst Blue Ribbon total of 4 medals
including Gold for Lone Star and Gold for Old Mill Light
Old Style took home a silver for American style Cream/Light Lager
(sorry Cubs Fans)

And the list goes on "sigh"


Mark, unless things have changed a lot since back in the late '80s and early '90s, when I used to judge at the GABF, they have separate categories that only fit "industrial" beer, and let those guys compete agains their peers and only against their peers. This seemed to make everyone happy. GABF got good money from CoorsBudMiller as sponsors, and they didn't have to embarrass themselves by competing against micros. I doubt this situation has altered much. ;)

Drink Local (thats why for the most part we only carry our own)


Works for me, a lot of the time! I might say "drink artisanal," though ... there's some great local stuff and some great American micros from other parts of the nation and some imports out there, too. But life's too short to drink bad beer (or wine).

Yeah, I'm not sure how much GABF is viewed as a competition. Or more of an award for a exceptional job well done.(or really a crap shoot) I first attended GABF in 95 and sure its changed. Hasen't everything. Check out Jerry Gnageys blog never trust a sober brewer on his 2007 experience with judging a GABF. I can attest to the fact that in 95 the awards held merit. Much probably goes for the same when you worked the event. I look forward to this year since Louisville brewerys were invited to the festival in Madison. Now that will be a good place to put back a fine crafted beverage--Nice
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by Jay M. » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:05 pm

Roger A. Baylor wrote:They say something along the lines of: "That's great, but it doesn't apply to what I'm doing," or "it wouldn't work with my customers," or "what do you have against the beer that I drink, you stuck up bastard?"


Or, as you wrote in the old forum in April 2005:

Roger A. Baylor wrote:Gawdamm, kid, can't you just pound the ole Budweiser? You some kinda pointy-headed snob? Ain't our beer good enough for ya?


(Still one of my favorite lines ever, here :lol: )
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Charles W.

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by Charles W. » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:06 pm

BTW, my "battle of Hastings" post was serious.
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Deb Hall

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by Deb Hall » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:42 pm

Regarding my posting about Chef Dean drinking Bud- I hope I have not been misconstrued. Personally I was really impressed that he was doing what he wanted, obviously what he liked, and not caring that it wasn't "fancy & sophisticated" like the rest of Corbett's. It was a breath of fresh air and really made me smile.

Corbett's is so incredibly well-done and elegant that it has the potential to become pretenious- which I really don't care for- but it's clear that Dean's not going to ever let this be the case. Hurrah!

Deb
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by Will Crawford » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:51 pm

Deb Hall wrote:Regarding my posting about Chef Dean drinking Bud- I hope I have not been misconstrued. Personally I was really impressed that he was doing what he wanted, obviously what he liked, and not caring that it wasn't "fancy & sophisticated" like the rest of Corbett's. It was a breath of fresh air and really made me smile.

Corbett's is so incredibly well-done and elegant that it has the potential to become pretenious- which I really don't care for- but it's clear that Dean's not going to ever let this be the case. Hurrah!

Deb


excellent post!
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Joel Halblieb

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by Joel Halblieb » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:53 pm

A artisan meal deserves an artisan beverage to accompany it. When I see a fine restaurant with just macro beer and wine on the menu it makes me think they are doing just the minimum to make a buck. Then I start to wonder if it is Sysco on the salad instead of a hand made dressing. If a fine restaurant does not care enough to put the time and effort into a well thought out beer list what else are they missing?
I do not think anyone on here is trying to stop anyone else from drinking what they want. Just match proper fair with proper beverage. Given the opportunity I do order craft beers with food. You can walk into any Rubyappleo'charleytuesdaybees and get a macro.
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Joel Halblieb

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by Joel Halblieb » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:59 pm

A artisan meal deserves an artisan beverage to accompany it. When I see a fine restaurant with just macro beer and wine on the menu it makes me think they are doing just the minimum to make a buck. Then I start to wonder if it is Sysco on the salad instead of a hand made dressing. If a fine restaurant does not care enough to put the time and effort into a well thought out beer list what else are they missing?
I do not think anyone on here is trying to stop anyone else from drinking what they want. Just match proper fair with proper beverage. Given the opportunity I do order craft beers with food.
You can walk into any Rubyappleo'charleytuesdaybees and get a macro. If a fine restaurant has nothing other then Macro, yes it should be considered a down side when rating. What a person drinks at home or afterwork is their own taste and should not be considered.
It is not like there are not other Pilsners out there that do not taste great. One just has to put in a little time and the type of research I am begging to get paid to do. Although I can't think what to pair with Pils off the top of my head, I can think of many other great beer pairings.
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by Ed Vermillion » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:35 pm

Joel Halblieb wrote: What a person drinks at home or afterwork is their own taste .



That sentence is the whole point. What a person drinks is their own taste. Why can't they drink that at a fine restaurant? Educate them, if you feel that is your passion, but make sure you have what the customer wants. (Except for you, Roger. I know the drill.)
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Roger A. Baylor

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by Roger A. Baylor » Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:15 pm

Deb Hall wrote:Regarding my posting about Chef Dean drinking Bud- I hope I have not been misconstrued. Personally I was really impressed that he was doing what he wanted, obviously what he liked, and not caring that it wasn't "fancy & sophisticated" like the rest of Corbett's. It was a breath of fresh air and really made me smile.

Corbett's is so incredibly well-done and elegant that it has the potential to become pretenious- which I really don't care for- but it's clear that Dean's not going to ever let this be the case. Hurrah!

Deb


With all due respect, I find the reasoning here somewhat scattershot.

If I'm grasping the argument, you're saying that a dish like Georges Bank cod with fennel artichoke ragout, saffron infused shellfish veloute is well done and elegant, and I've no doubt that's true, but isn't it the case that a majority of people in the metro area would find it pretentious?

No, we might both respond, such a dish isn't pretentious at all; to know more about the food and what goes into preparing it is to understand and appreciate its well-crafted elegance. Nothing pretentious about it.

But ... at the same time, for the same person who created the Georges Bank cod with fennel artichoke ragout, saffron infused shellfish veloute to eschew its equivalent when it comes to beer is a "breath of fresh air."

If a customer asks the chef to substitute bologna for the cod for the same price, the chef might well do so in the interest of cash flow, but I'm guessing there's be no "hurrah" for the bologna-eater's unpretentiousness.

Yet if the chef or a customer quaffs a simple Bud Light, suddenly it's an emphatic statement of principle in an atmosphere otherwise devoted to the polar opposite of Bud Light, in short, where everything is NOT Bud Light.

Help me out here. I'm trying hard and very gently to understand the pretentious-fresh air rationale here.
Roger A. Baylor
New Albanian Brewing Company &
NABC Bank Street Brewhouse
New Albany, Indiana
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