Can a great restaurant serve mass-market beer?

What about hard liquor? Should fine restaurants stop serving Makers Mark because it is owned by a huge conglomerate Fortune brands which by the way also owns Absolute? Do you deny the man who loves Old Forester because there are "better" or more crafted bourbons on the market. Or how about Jim Beam also owned by Fortune?

I think that if the list of beverages is well balanced then a place should not be penalized?

I agree that restaurants should not be penalized for their beer list - but why not reward them for it. If I was a reviewer, which I am not, I would devote at least a paragraph of my reviews to drink offerings, with a focus on the beer selection.
Not sure if any of the BBC guys have tuned into this conversation but I just recently had their "Old St Matthews Ale" at Maido. Thumbs up on that one!

high quality restaurants should serve high quality products

i don't think we're bashing bud, coors, and miller because they're produced by the millions
i'm against them because they do not supply a quality product (opinions may differ on this, but the addition of rice and corn to the brewing process + the overall lack of character or flavor - leads me to believe that these are low quality beers)

if absolut or makers were low quality products, i would suggest not carrying them

craft soft drinks should certainly be supplied at high end establishments

who wants a pepsi, when you can have a sprecher, jones. abita or something else
why would you have a big red with your lamb or duck??

high quality restaurants should serve high quality products

Can you give me some examples of what would be high quality beers that should be served at a high quality restaurant?

http://www.restaurant.org/pressroom/pre ... fm?ID=1524

Found this interesting article referenced on BeerAdvocate. Take from it what you will but it seems that craft beers are becoming a more popular trend in restaurants. Sooner the better in my opinion.

http://www.restaurant.org/pressroom/pre ... fm?ID=1524

Found this interesting article referenced on BeerAdvocate. Take from it what you will but it seems that craft beers are becoming a more popular trend in restaurants. Sooner the better in my opinion. It would be great to see more of my local favorites adopt this trend.

why would you have a big red with your lamb or duck??

You were doing fine until you had to go and dis Big Red. I would have it on a plane, with caviar and truffles laissez les bon temp rouler! I would drink it in my truck and I would definitely have it with my duck. Mere mortals should not trifle with the fine dining flavor profile that is Big Red. Move back to safer ground, young one.

hey Ron

for statrters
Dogfish Head
Delirium
La Chouffe
Stone
Bells
Samuel Smith
Rogue
Duvel
Three Floyds
Upland
New Albanian

-
these high quality breweries produce a vast array of great beer

that can be paired with the finest meals
(and in most cases beers will better compliment/enhance a meal than wines)

-
from the simplest viewpoint (based on the products used to create wine or beer)
beer offers a better pairing with food because
beer is made from grain (which in most cases is used to feed the meat for our meal)
additionally, the terroir of a beer is clearly evident in its taste
(utilizing the water from the region as well as local spices and/or hops)

beers in my opinion better represent the flavors present in most dining experiences
for example
- a rye bread made may be complimented by a beer brewed with rye
- the butter/cream/milk used in sauces may be made from cows that fed on the same grain used to brew a specific beer (i'm pretty sure that Dogfish Head provides leftover mash (grain that has been through the brewing process) to local farmers for their cattle
the beef/chicken/pork/duck probably was fed a steady diet of grain, which again can be complimented by the grain used in the beer

unless your dining on grapes or sauces made from grapes
it is pretty difficult to echo the flavors from your meal with your wine

the taste of many beers are very straightforward (unlike wine) and therefore much more approachable and less intimidating than the mysterious wine experience (- syrah -notes of black pepper majestically resting on hints of oak with a dry finish)
compared to say A CHOCOLATE STOUT - roasted malts and toffee mingle with robust chocolate flavors

in my humble opinion beers match up more closely with their descriptions and leave less to the whims of the taster/sommelier

take roger's advice and read Oliver's book of beer and food (Oliver is the brewmaster at Brooklyn Brewery)

Not sure if this merits a separate thread or not, but on the subject of craft beer vs mass market swill as Roger calls it - Why do some restaurants charge 2 different price points for "domestics" and "imports", but they have domestics on the import list? I am happy to pay more for a better beer, but don't call it an "import" just because it isn't a Budweiser.

Oh, and I concur about not dissing on the Big Red.

I always order water.

Have to agree on the "imports", but Samuel Adams is not imported unless we are talking from another state. I have never understood why there is not a "standard" vs. "premium" distinction.

On Sodas, I think Jones sodas have to be the most overrated, overpriced item out there (might be some wine equivalent but I do not drink wine). At a minimum, Stewarts dominates it. The best soda, hands down, is McDonalds orange fountain drink. It cannot be replicated in bottle format, and beats all comers.

Last, with the Red Bull craze, why do restaurants not serve more of those Monster soft drinks with 10 times the caffeine? I personally hate the stuff, but you never see teenagers without that stuff.

ok my apologia for BIG RED
but mountain dew is my nectar

anyway
price ponits
domestic vs import is an outdated pricing strategy

Roger and i both price beers based on their individual case (by bottle) cost
i agree imports, if on a list labeled as such, should me imported into the country
i would wager it is because they don't want to (or care to) price their beers individually

the domestic/micro/import division may be more effective, but prices can vary by huge amounts so pricing this way can only lead to a business losing money or taking too much of yours

for instance
a case of three floyds can cost you anywhere between 30 and 60 per case of 12 oz bottles (depending on the beer)
it simply doesn't make sense to lump beers together for pricing

an interesting note
before we opened our restaurant
i saw a sign a a local establishment offering import beers for $X

so i went in and asked what imports they had
this is what the waitress said to me
MICHELOB, MICHELOB DARK, & MICHELOB AMBER

i almost laughed out loud, but i ordered a rum and coke instead

ignorance can be blissful

Should fine restaurants stop serving Makers Mark because it is owned by a huge conglomerate Fortune brands which by the way also owns Absolute?

Actually, virtually anything is possible with knowledge and passion -- even offending a conglomerate.

for the fine soda lovers
stop by Roger's and have a draft root beer from Sprecher, best i've ever had, it reminds me of a long ago era of draft A&W

This gets to the essence of the debate.

It's okay to challenge a customer when it comes to food and wine, but not with beer. But would such a fine menu as the one at Corbett's be possible if talented chefs had not challenged the customer?

Yes, beer is not associated with fine dining. But, craft beer sales were up 12% last year, and I'd hazard a guess that the demographic willing to spend for good beer parallels that willing to ante up for fine dining.

I have only two observations to make, and I promise to leave it alone:

(1) Read "The Brewmaster's Table" by Garrett Oliver, and ...

(2) Permit me to pair beers with Dean Corbett's cuisine some time and I'll prove what's possible.

The reason why some of you don't see the possibilities is because you haven't been exposed to them.

Over. Out.

Here's more evidence of what I interpret to be your belief that further training will be required for fine dining establishments to consider higher quality beer lists: This week's Louisville Business First includes a brief interview with Jim Gerhardt of Limestone Restaurant. In response to the interviewer's question "What are some other skills needed to successfully own and operate a restaurant?", Chef Gerhardt responds:

"You have to have a good working knowledge of wines and how they pair with food, as well as liquors."