Can a great restaurant serve mass-market beer?

by those same line Ben, fine dining establishments should carry great box wine because the ads are good

Great Box wine. You said it. Some of which is pretty good and stays fresh longer, therefore eliminating waste, which increases profits to feed the family with.

i agree
will
and i have friends that swear by the box

by those same line Ben, fine dining establishments should carry great box wine because the ads are good

I keep a box of wine at home, for when I don't need a bottle, specifically because the technology is good and better wines are starting to become available.

But that's a side issue.

A great restaurant won't serve McDonalds, but my kids are 5 and 3 and request McD's or BK based on what toys they saw on ads. My five-year old has been coming up with Christmas wish lists for two years running based on ads on Noggin and Nick.

Adults are just as susceptible to the onslaught of advertisements for Bud Light and will order it without thought.

I still can't fathom a logical reason for diet sodas.

Even drink snobs will like some drinks because they are supposed to... a couple of years ago I realized Taaka triple platinum tasted better than Ketel one. I tried to buy my father-in-law beefeater once and he turned me down, he reluctantly admitted he prefered the taste of Gordon's and ordered Beefeater out of embarassment the time before.
So by no means am I suggesting one should be ashamed of preferring a certain beverage.
My point is just that Anheuser Busch has used advertising in their quest toward market domination, and their most advertised brand is mainly known for its advertising properties, not its flavor.

Falls City, Hudepohl, Wiedemann's etc. have successfully been eradicated, and now the Michelob specialty line is coming after a craft brewer near you. (Literally at Slugger Field, where you have to settle for a Grolsch or Red hook because they are owned by you-know-who)

I think a fine restaurant can serve Bud Light if they choose, and if the chef actually likes the stuff more power to them, but if the goal is to provide the finest dining experience, a beer list of suggested choices and a sommelier with the pairing choices would be an improvement. If Bud Light is there, its because of its advertising-generated ubiquity, not because the chef really thinks its an ideal drink to complement the meal.

If anybody thinks Bud Light is the ideal accompaniment to a fine meal, let them correct me.

I read about half of this thread and then jumped to bottom to join in, because it seems to me the inclusion of bad beer on otherwise fine dining is not at all isolated, it is just that bad wine is not the company bad beer keeps.

What about the horrible taste of diet cola?
What about the horrible taste of cigarettes?

Since nicotine is more addictive than even caffeine and alcohol, the diet cola question has more in common with the bud light question.

So why would otherwise rational people take a four or five star meal and debase it with some nasty mass-produced concoction? Behold the power of advertising. When I decided I was too fat to continue drinking coke, it never occurred to me to do what most people do, ie 'make the switch to diet', but why is that decision rare? Why do others force themselves to acquire the taste for diet drinks? Presumably its the massive advertising campaigns that make the decision to request an overhyped product an unconscious decision, implicit instructions from the TV being followed without conscious input into the wisdom of the decision. 'Its what I am supposed to order'

I don't understand the need to acquire a taste for something, period. I discovered when I just began to drink that I hated beer. It tasted nasty and bitter to me then, and it does now. My husband told me that he'd had to acquire the taste for beer. If I don't like something, I don't eat/drink it again. It's that simple. I'm not going to pretend to like something I hate just to be accepted. Nothing against beer lovers, I just do NOT like beer. I'm not too fond of wine, either, but I'll drink red wine for the health benefits.

Now, I do love diet drinks. Not because I'm told to, but because I really do enjoy them. I love that crisp, not-too-sweet taste. I can't stand the gross high fructose corn syrup aftertaste of regular drinks. Occasionally, I will allow myself one good, all natural sugar or cane syrup sweetened (no HFCS) root beer.

...If I don't like something, I don't eat/drink it again. It's that simple....

You'll miss out on things. Do you not acknowledge that your tastes might change with time/maturity?

I have an acquaintance whose 14 year-old daughter eats ONLY pizza, chicken tenders, french fries and Kraft mac 'n cheese. When my friend has groups over for dinner, she always makes the Kraft product to appease her daughter, regardless of what others are eating. Typically, the teenager's plate includes only the macaroni. In my opinion that's ridiculous.

I used to HATE curry because my exposure to it as a kid was limited to McCormick's brand curry powder. Then, I stepped outside my experience box and tried the curries at Sala Thai. They were incredible and I order one of them whenever I go.

You'll miss out on things. Do you not acknowledge that your tastes might change with time/maturity?

i remember hearing one of my chef instructors (in my first class) say to the class: 'if you hated something as a kid, try it again. your palate changes every 5 years of so, and you may like it now.'

case in point:
I loved loved loved banana's when i was a kid. so much that one of my grandmother's to this day we all call Nana because i associated getting bananas with her at a farmer's market.

i hate bananas now.


i only wish i had some web link i could use to backup this 5-year palate thing... but i do recall it being related to how your senses change on a chemical, physiological level.

You all hit the nail on the head. If we all never tried things again that we "hated", who would eat vegetables or drink coffee?
There are many things that change as your palate is refined. Other things can also affect how food will taste alcohol, caffine, nicotine etc. You might try something new when you are sick and leave feeling it was bland and flavorless when in actuality your senses were numb.
Michelle, I can appreciate the fact that you don't care for beer or wine. I believe the beer and wine drinker argument would be that you have not had good beer or good wine. That may or may not be the case, but just because one tries something once and "hates" it, doesn't mean it isn't worth exploring.
You may indeed find that you don't care for either much like the vegetarian may not care for meat. I encourage you to explore your options with a knowledgable host. Todd Antz, Roger Baylor, Matt Crow, Shawn Vest all seem to have a vast knowledge, I would start with one of them.

I have tried beer several times recently, and still do not like it. The same with coffee. I can't stand coffee. I love the smell, hate the taste. My tongue just seems to be really sensitive to bitter substances.

I have also tried recently to eat other foods I hate, such as zucchini, squash, and eggplant. For me, it's a texture thing.

I hate bananas. I was sick a lot as a kid, and had to take the liquid form of erythromyacin, which was so thick you could practically cut it with a knife, AND tasted like rotten bananas, to boot. I tried to eat a banana a few weeks ago, and was almost sick.

I guess I was a weird kid. I loved my fruits and veggies. I actually like most foods, and will pretty much try anything.

I do try things (my family calls them thank you bites) that I don't like, and have on occasion, changed my mind. I will now eat sweet potatoes and mushrooms.

For example, every time anyone has any sort of beer, they give me a sip, but I just don't like it. Maybe my taste buds are screwed up, but I just can't get past the bitterness. Don't get me wrong, I really WANT to like beer, I just don't.

One exception would be Lambic ale. The hubby bought a bottle of the black cherry flavored to try, and I really enjoyed it, but that is the only time I have ever tried a beer and gone back for more than a sip. I actually drank most of the bottle. I also like hard cider, but that's about it.

So you're right, taste buds do change. If I try something that I once hated, and change my mind, great, but I'm not necessarily TRYING to acquire the taste for things.

hi michelle

it seems that you do like beer (lambic is a beer, you probably have the Lindeman's Kriek (cherry))

but you may not have tried a wide enough variety

what beers have you tasted?
if i can decipher what you don't like about some beers, maybe i can point you in the direction of beers you may enjoy

so far i can tell that you don't like bitter and i'm assuming you don't like commercial lagers

so, let's try a few things that aren't bitter

belgian triples
brown ales

feel free to drop by and we'll go through some samples and determine what you like and dislike about beer

try to stick with the Lindeman's for now
the framboise (raspberry is available on draft at Roger's)
they also make, peach, apple, and currant

but the Lindeman's line is not representative of Belgian lambics- so stick with that brand or you may find something funky that you won't like

shawn

Shawn,
Michelle also says she like hard cider. I know that Roger has a large selection of hard cider. You might make some suggestions along those lines. My wife likes Woodchuck, but I don't know enough about hard cider to make any suggestions.

hi michelle

it seems that you do like beer (lambic is a beer, you probably have the Lindeman's Kriek (cherry))

but you may not have tried a wide enough variety

what beers have you tasted?
if i can decipher what you don't like about some beers, maybe i can point you in the direction of beers you may enjoy

so far i can tell that you don't like bitter and i'm assuming you don't like commercial lagers

so, let's try a few things that aren't bitter

belgian triples
brown ales

feel free to drop by and we'll go through some samples and determine what you like and dislike about beer

try to stick with the Lindeman's for now
the framboise (raspberry is available on draft at Roger's)
they also make, peach, apple, and currant

but the Lindeman's line is not representative of Belgian lambics- so stick with that brand or you may find something funky that you won't like

shawn

I can tell you that I don't like any of the bud/miller/coors/old milwaukee types. Not because they're commercial, but because they taste bitter to me.

I liked that the lambic was sweet, yet not too heavy. I love the crispness and sweetness of hard cider. I'm not sure if you would consider Newcastle a brown ale, but I have tried it, and do not care for it.

See, I really am trying!

newcastle is the most basic brown

what about the newcastle did you dislike?

ciders

for me
Domaine DuPont's are the best, i couldn't get them in Louisville, but roger carries several of their varieties (french style)

english ciders tend to be dry and tart, while french tend to sweeter and more subtle

any chance you like meads??

the bitterness you dislike is the HOPS
most beers use hops in the brewing process
beers you won't like because of the hop profile
Indian Pale Aes, American Pale Ales (essentially anything that ends in pale ale will not suit your taste)
ESB (english or extra special bitter)
traditional lagers (spaten, warsteiner) have a hop character that you will not enjoy

try some belgians - but not stella artois

shawn
congrats for trying something new (lambics)

The Newcastle was too bitter for my liking. I've never actually had a chance to try mead. I've always wanted to give it a go, just never had the opportunity.

Yeah, IPA is definitely NOT for me. I tried it once, and quite literally made the "bitter beer face." Ugh.

if you go mead, try the mead at the Bluegrass Brewing company on Shelbyville Rd

then go see Roger and get some Jadwiga - expensive, but fantastic

ok, stick to belgians, for the time being and see where it leads you
shawn

whoa,
Michelle

i almost forgot wheat and wit beers

wheat beers (hefe-weizens) and wit beers are very mild beers that usually have very little or no hop profile in the flavor

try one of these
a Hoegaarden or
Weihenstephaner Krystal weiss

shawn