Can a great restaurant serve mass-market beer?

For all I know beer may be the magical nectar of the gods that pairs with every flavor combination known to mankind. If so, good on it.

Ron, we're in perfect agreement here.

Just out of curiosity, why the "magical nectar" sarcasm?

not being sarcastic at all, but trying to emphasize how limited my knowledge is of the subject matter. Not sure how I got pinned as being a beer-basher on this thread since I've been quite honest regarding ny ignorance of this beverage.

Fair enough.

I often tell people who ask that I'd like nothing more than to switch gears and spend time learning wine from people like Brett and Kevin Lowber, except for the unfortunate fact that I've only one liver, and have dedicated it to beer.

I'm loyal that way.

One reason I enjoy going to L & N is that it's a busman's holiday; I pick the food and have the servers bring flights of wine to match. It's a fine learning experience for me. What continues to bedvil me, though, is that an alarming number of times it somehow isn't possible to convince a wine lover to pay beer the same courtesy.

Then I'm the one who gets labeled as a beer snob!

Within reason, I'm omnibibulous, and I know that in this, as in everything else, you can lead people within the rough vicinity of knowledge, but alas ... not always succeed in coaxing them into learning.

It may seem obvious. It doesn't mean I have to accept it.

we don't have draft either, but our world class bev rep, gives me credit for samples
ky laws about beer samples are different also

It's all good Shawn. I appreciate what you are doing in Charlestown. Beer and Pizza, what could be more natural?

well
i'll say it out loud
i am a wine basher
and i believe beer to be the better beverage
based on taste, historical significance, and its current under dog status - i'll always cheer for it to be better appreciated by the masses

hey ron
you said
"It is actually very easy to beautifully pair wine with food. Wine is a natural counterpart for food. "
i just would like to know why it is a natural counterpart?

in my humble opinion
wine is obscenely overrated and can account for its place in the dining culture only by its close association with French cooking styles - not by its ability to actually compliment a dish

i would simply like to know what reasons can be given for pairing wine with a dish?
not historical or cultural traditions -like a red goes with beef - or simple sauce reasons - we use a cabernet sauce, so we suggest a cabernet to compliment the sauce

but why wines actually compliment the flavor of a dish?

i've given several generalized reasons as to why beer flavors compliment food (like the fact that the bitterness of a hop heavy IPA will cut right through a spicy mexican dish and leave your mouth refreshed and awaiting the next bite, or that the rich malts and slight bitterness of porters are the perfect compliment to shellfish - cutting through the slight taste of the sea and melding with the richness of the meat)

other than the acidity of wine, no one has given any reasons for the dominance of wine


- with the exception of the stella, the draft line up looks great at corbett's
and carrie's descriptions of the pairings are excellent
that is how beer should be portrayed to a fine dining audience

i agree with Roger, the stella should negate the need for domestic swill

i have to say this to be clear
STELLA ARTOIS IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF BELGIAN BEERS
please do not let stella taint your perception of the greatest beer producing nation on the planet
stella is belgian for budweiser

the first time i had a stella artois (at the hideaway saloon, no doubt) i had never tasted it, ordered it (did not watch it being poured), and when i tasted it - i asked the barkeep if she had poured a miller lite by mistake - i then promptly gave that beer away and ordered a samuel smith

just my beer superiority shining through
no offense intended to all the wine lovers out there

another historical beer note

many of the dishes we enjoy today in the fine dining experience have origins with the working class
clams, mussels, and other shellfish may be the most noteworthy of this group
these foods were traditionally enjoyed by the lower/working/common classes and in the UK they became closely associated with the drink of the common man - beer, and more specifically porters
thus a part of the culinary history of these fine marine animals is linked to the beer they were enjoyed most frequently with
not to mention they taste great together (one of the finer moments of british cuisine in my opinion)



again
no offense to wine lovers out there
try a new beer today

It's all good Shawn. I appreciate what you are doing in Charlestown. Beer and Pizza, what could be more natural?

beer and salmon
beer and ice cream
beer and cornish hen
beer battered shrimp
beer bread
beer and chocolate
beer and cheese
beer and a fried bologna sandwich
beer and burgers
beer and bison
oh sorry

nothing could be more natural than beer and pizza
thanks

Thank you Shawn.

I was completely with Roger's post until he said Stella.

I'm sorry but... I'm not a fan of Stella. Not at all.

I'd rather have a Bud... even if they were the same price. Which they rarely are.

I'm not clear why Stella is OK if Bud is not. What "new frontier" is Stella opening? What taste buds is it challenging? It's Budweiser for people who are too snobby to drink Budweiser. Besides, you're then going against the whole "be local, buy local" thing we love on this board. Why import Belgian Budweiser when you can drink American Budweiser and support American jobs for American families? Right?

Within reason, I'm omnibibulous...

Well, once again you guys have sent me to the dictionary. What a cool word, this omnibibulous - so cool in fact that I had hopes of being it. In my search, I came across this:

the worthless word for the day is: ombibulous

[coined by H. L. Mencken; ultimately fr. L. imbibere,
to drink in + omni, all]
referring to someone who drinks anything

"One of the fellows I can't understand is the man with
violent likes and dislikes in his drams--the man who
dotes on highballs but can't abide malt liquor, or who
drinks white wine but not red, or who holds that
Scotch whiskey benefits his kidneys whereas rye
whiskey corrodes his liver. As for me, I am prepared
to admit some merit in every alcoholic beverage ever
devised by the incomparable brain of man and drink
them all when occasions are suitable--wine with meat,
the hard liquors when my so-called soul languishes,
beer to let me down gently of an evening. In other
words, I am omnibibulous, or more simply, ombibulous."
- H. L. Mencken, Minority Report

I'll drink to that! Indeed, I can say with confidence that I am omnibibulous too. It makes me proud.

well
hey ron
you said
"It is actually very easy to beautifully pair wine with food. Wine is a natural counterpart for food. "
i just would like to know why it is a natural counterpart?

It's natural because it is a product of nature? Because they taste good together. Because the flavors complement each other? I'm not sure what you are asking here.

Look, I know you really badly want to get into an argument about why beer is better than wine. You need to find someone else. I'm not interested. I never said wine was better than beer. I admitted that I don't know enough about beer to make that kind of statement. I simply disagreed with your statement that wine could only be paired with grapes and grape sauces. I'll stick to my position on that. I wonder if you know enough about wine to bash it the way that you have on this thread?

I'd like to know what Robin thinks about this issue, as he might be the only person on this forum with enough knowledge of both beer and wine to comment. I bet he's say they are both fine accompaniments and you should drink what you like.

"It's natural because it is a product of nature? Because they taste good together. Because the flavors complement each other? I'm not sure what you are asking here. " ron

i'm not trying to argue over why beer is better

but as i have provided answers based on the ingredients in beer and the historical links between beer and certain foods

i am looking for the same from wine lovers

why do the flavors compliment each other, is it the aging in oak casks, is it the particular yeast used in fermentation, do particular varieties of grapes match well because of the tanin in their skins, the terroir,
the aging and blending process, the ripeness of the grapes

all these play a role in the flavor of wines

what about particular wines make them compliment the food

water "taste good" with just about everything, but it isn't given the status of wine

the phrase "natural counterpart" i guess is what gets me
it implies that wine was naturally meant to be a counterpart to a great meal

high quality restaurants should serve high quality products

Can you give me some examples of what would be high quality beers that should be served at a high quality restaurant?

This was fun. Here is my list using Roger's types with a couple more thrown in:

Pilsner: North Coast Scrimshaw (sure there are others – not my favorite style)
Dark lager: Warsteiner Premium or Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel
Doppelbock: Ayinger Celebrator or Weihenstephaner Korbinian (my favorite)
Belgian-style Wit (white/wheat): Ommegang Witte or Allagash White
German style wheat: Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier or Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier
Belgian Trappist: I agree with Roger here – Chimay or Delirium
Belgian Pale: North Coast Pranqster
Blegian Dark: Ommegang Abbey Ale or Unibroue Trois Pistoles (another favorite)
Belgian Quads: Avery Brewing The Reverend, Ommengang Four
Saisons: Ommegang Hennipin
Imperial Stout: North Coast Old Rasputin, Bells Expedition Stout
American-style double IPA: Stone Ruination, Bells Two Hearted, Sierra Nevada Celebration (I could go on)
American Pale Ale: Anchor Steam Liberty

And I would have to find a place to put North Coast’s Old Stock Ale somewhere on the list.

Looking back on my list I guess you can see that my favorite brewers are Weihenstephaner, Ommegang, North Coast, Unibroue, and Bells. I think you could put a serviceable list together only using these 5 brewers.

And of course you would want to include some of the options that our wonderful local brewers have to offer.

Thank you Shawn.

I was completely with Roger's post until he said Stella.

I'm sorry but... I'm not a fan of Stella. Not at all.

I'd rather have a Bud... even if they were the same price. Which they rarely are.

I'm not clear why Stella is OK if Bud is not. What "new frontier" is Stella opening? What taste buds is it challenging? It's Budweiser for people who are too snobby to drink Budweiser. Besides, you're then going against the whole "be local, buy local" thing we love on this board. Why import Belgian Budweiser when you can drink American Budweiser and support American jobs for American families? Right?

Looking back, I see that I failed to add italics to and, as in Tennant's and Stella.

If this came off in any way as an endorsement for Stella, then I apologize. What I wanted to know is why it's necessary to have two Eurolagers on tap, and for that matter, why one also needs two American lagers in bottles when Scrimshaw's there, anyway.

Echoing Shawn, I resent the way that Stella is marketed as indicative of Belgian beer culture.

Will,

Then you can not serve any of the high end bourbons from Jim Beam, no Wild Turkey products. Buffalo trace is gone Woodford reserve is gone. these are all owned by mega corps. Oh well we can drink water with our meal.

You are right on those. But you can drink the high-end Heaven Hill Bourbons - Elijah Craig, Evan Williams Single Barrel, etc- they are not a conglomerate: still family -owned....

DEb

I'll drink whatever I please, be it bourbon, or a Bud Light. Mass produced, or no.

If you don't like Bud Light, or Stella, don't freaking drink it!

I can't believe a bunch of adults are bickering about beer and wine, and what should or should not be offered in Dean Corbett's new restaurant. So Mr. Corbett had the audacity to drink mass produced beer. Perish the thought! God forbid that he and his staff should be able to enjoy the beer of their choice, in THEIR place, without the prying eyes of the beer police watching.

I swear, it seems like a few of you are ready to crucify him. If you like artisanal beer, great. That doesn't give you the right to decree that since Bud Light is offensive to you, nobody else should be able to drink Bud Light. There are many more pressing issues in the world to debate over. If you dislike the way the beer list is being done at Corbett's, why don't you open your own 5 star place, and run it the way you think a 5 star place should be run?

Nobody owes you any sort of explanation, least of all, Dean Corbett. That being said, I think Mr. Corbett showed lots of class by responding to some of you as politely as he did.

I'll drink whatever I please, be it bourbon, or a Bud Light. Mass produced, or no.

If you don't like Bud Light, or Stella, don't freaking drink it!

I can't believe a bunch of adults are bickering about beer and wine, and what should or should not be offered in Dean Corbett's new restaurant. So Mr. Corbett had the audacity to drink mass produced beer. Perish the thought! God forbid that he and his staff should be able to enjoy the beer of their choice, in THEIR place, without the prying eyes of the beer police watching.

I swear, it seems like a few of you are ready to crucify him. If you like artisanal beer, great. That doesn't give you the right to decree that since Bud Light is offensive to you, nobody else should be able to drink Bud Light. There are many more pressing issues in the world to debate over. If you dislike the way the beer list is being done at Corbett's, why don't you open your own 5 star place, and run it the way you think a 5 star place should be run? Nobody owes you any sort of explanation. That being said, I think Mr. Corbett showed lots of class by responding to some of you as politely as he did.

This HAS to be the BEST post ever on this food board. Of course, it's my own meager opinion, but I believe Michelle has quite succinctly summed up THE entirety of this endeavor.