New urbanism, same old Chinese

When I got home the "double post" was not on my screen until I logged back in. As JerryC pointed out it's happened in your own post before, so I am surprised (not really) that you were unaware of it.

As I am sure you know cannot modify it. I am sure as admin you can and ask you to do so.

I spent the evening up and down Frankfort Ave. I certainly appreciate all it has to offer as I appreciate all Norton Commons has to offer. No words of putting anything down and in fact I appreciate the resurgence all along the Frankfort Ave corridor as I do the planned transition from sod farms to Norton Commons, Schools, Churches and even a YMCA in eastern Jefferson County.

Robin I hope you have a fantastic weekend and that you will think before you try to be cutesy or allow your personal preferences to shine through in your next review. It's so unprofessional and speaks poorly about the person writing it, but then again unless someone pointed it out to me, I and many others would had never seen it. Just responding I've already given it much more attention than it deserves.

Robin rather than take a chance that you will delete the wrong section. Here is my comments as I also copied them originally from your forum to put in a Norton Commons forum for all to see with links also back to this forum.

Robin where do I start? As one of the earliest residents in Norton Commons I take total offense to your choice of language. Apparently so do many others on the Residents and Businesses of Norton Commons page on Facebook as well as another LHB person, AnnaMarie who lives in Norton Commons express her feelings.

Creepy...really!!!! You guys obviously haven't walked down Frankfort Avenue late at night. I often do and one night around 2:00am as I was walking from Bourbon Bistro to Volare to my car I see this guy pedaling his bycyle down the street dressed like a bum crazily swerving wearing a miners helmet light for his light. He then pulls directly behind me and starts shouting. I keep my head turned so not to make eye contact and then I hear him say "Cousin Jerry!" Sounds vaguely familiar. So I turn my head, it's my Cousin Andy Blieden owner of ButcherTown Market and very active in the building, rehabilitation and rebirth of that area. Goes to show you that if you don't know the facts it's easy to come to the wrong conclusion. Certainly not creepy.

So now that I've addressed creepy let's move on. There is another point I heard here that I constantly hear that is a common misconception. Let's start with the basic concept behind Norton Commons. The whole idea behind Norton Commons is to be a melting pot of people from all socioeconomic backgrounds. There is an entire building of condos in Norton Commons that lease in the $600 range based on financial assets. There are lots of apartments now too and yes some are luxury apartments. There are also other condos and apartments at price points all over the place.

Another benefit of the mixed pricing is you see entire generations of families living in Norton Commons. It's not unusual to see the adult kids move in followed by their parents. There are even cases of cousins, aunts and uncles too! Some even start family businesses.

As a "journalist" you would think you would take the time to learn more about something than just to go off into a rant. I would also expect you, despite your obvious prejudices to choose your words better.

For those in the thread who say they can't afford to live in Norton Commons. If you can't afford to live somewhere that's no reason to knock it. There's plenty of places I can't afford to live and I certainly don't knock those areas. Keep in mind that many of us live, work and play in our home areas and take great pride in where we live. Respect my turf. I respect yours.

In the end Robin completely discredits his review by his strong feelings against Norton Commons. There is no doubt his bias flows through to his review. If Robin you would take the time to explore Norton Commons further you would find that there are plans for a Chinese Street Food Restuarant to open which mitigates any reason for Tea Station not to focus on their core menu items which they do so very well with like everyone else an occasional off evening.

I have offered this before and I will offer it again. Anytime anyone wants to come out and learn more about why Norton Commons has grown from 10 homes when I moved in to over 1,000 units today in just 10 years I'd love to show you around. But I will tell you now it is more than the bricks & motar...it's the people, the people from all walks of life, all socioeconomic backgrounds, and all ages. A real cross section of America and perhaps a great example of the American Dream in the way we all live and feel in a real sense of community!

Jerry Z. - I am happy for you. It seems you have found a home that you love.

Before this thread is dropped please allow me to make a couple points very clear ...
Most importantly, at least to me, is to point out to Marie and Jerry Z. that the"creepy" and Twilight Zoneish" comments came from ME. Not Robin. Robin was very diplomatic and likened NC to Epcot. An analogy that is undeniable. It IS an artificially created environment, not one that grew over a period of time based on the ebb and flow of families, industry, or business. It was created "en masse" and dropped into place as it were. So chew up MY backside not Robin's.

I called it Twilight Zoneish because it is artificially organized. Not bad in and of itself, after all, most public gardens are created this way and I love gardens! But, it lacks the feeling of evolution and growth that older neighborhoods have. Maybe in 30 years it'll have that. It did not originate as a melting pot of all socioeconomic backgrounds based on its original price points for homes. As I stated before, since the real estate bubble bust that may have changed due to the nessesity of selling already built properties and more reasonably priced housing has been made available. Good. Now it stands a chance of really becoming a diverse neighborhood but, as I stated earlier, it did not originate that way.
I did not mean to offend anyone but I stand by statements. Every time I go to work with a family in NC I am reminded of that Twilight Zone episode where the partying couple awakens in the idyllic neighborhood with no one else there only to find out it was, in fact, a giant doll house.
Sorry. It is not my Great American Dream. It is, for me anyway, the GMO of housing.

The rep bleeds into other publications as well. In Louisville MAgazine this month, a place called Commonwealth Tap got the Best Bar designation. Location: "In perfectly manicured Norton Commons, on a street that resembles Wisteria Lane from Desperate Housewives."

I stand by my offer. Anytime anyone wants to learn more about the Norton Commons area and it's concept I am happy to take you for a personal tour.

Many of you have no idea of what it is like to live and work in Norton Commons.

CarlaG in your words: "I called it Twilight Zoneish because it is artificially organized"

Yes it is a planned community and that is perhaps one of it's key selling points. That avoids the parking, traffic and other issues that exist in many other older areas in Louisville. It's also the reason we were willing to move in Norton Commons 10 years ago with only a handful of homes in the middle of a vast field. Years before we were looking to move, we had stayed at Celebration in Florida and said if we ever found a place like it we would move there. When we walked into the sales trailer which stood in front of a basically empty field and saw the same town architect's name we were ready to sign up and take the leap of faith. These are the same guys that also did Seaside and many other similar developments all over the world and we knew what the vision could become. I will be the first to admit that it is not everyones cup of tea and thats fine, but no reason to be disrespectful. Growing from 10 homes ten years ago to over 1000 units today with businesses opening regularily now with the increased population, it is a vision shared by many. By the way it is still only just over 1/3 complete.

But saying it gives anyone the CREEPS. Really. Are there areas and places in Louisville that truly give me the creeps. You bet there are, but I would never put them down. I am sure the people who live there take great pride in their community as I do mine. Robin as a writer for a publication and public person you are held to a higher standard and it doesn't matter who said it, you wrote it. Obviously you don't feel that responsibility. That's fine. That's your choice and respect you for it!

It's the same people who did Seaside, Florida, you say? That's where they filmed the Truman Show, right?

That's funny that Jerry mentioned Celebration, because that's what I thought the place was modeled after.

Now I lived in or around Winter Park- Orlando's version of the Highlands. I loved the culture. Running errands was a chore, though. Getting to a Lowe's for a drill bit became an all day affair (in the beating heat.) It's still one of the worst cases of urban sprawl in the nation.

At Celebration, everything you needed was within five minutes. It's everybit the beautiful home as the historic one- just new, as the saplings haven't become oaks, yet.

Give it 50 years and NC will be the new Highlands.

But saying it gives anyone the CREEPS. Really. Are there areas and places in Louisville that truly give me the creeps. You bet there are, but I would never put them down. I am sure the people who live there take great pride in their community as I do mine. Robin as a writer for a publication and public person you are held to a higher standard and it doesn't matter who said it, you wrote it. Obviously you don't feel that responsibility. That's fine. That's your choice and respect you for it!

Again - I said it and I wrote it and I take full responsibility for doing so. I simply don't like the place. So what? This is not a real estate site trying to sell homes.

Let's quote Robin directly from his review:

There we were, Mary and I, sitting and chatting as we waited for our apps in the comfortably cozy confines of Tea Station Chinese Bistro. We sipped Tsing Tao beers and gazed out at the main drag of Norton Commons, the new subdivision with the old-time look, trying to figure out why this village somehow feels both appealing and a little creepy all at the same time.

Norton Commons was Louisville's first large venture into the "New Urbanism" (or at least the first since St. James Court was developed in 1887). Hey, New Urbanism is cool! Something new, made to look old, compact and walkable, retro in style, quaint but, um, "safe."

So what's not to like?

"It's a little too much like Epcot," Mary mused. Yeah, I can see that. T

Now lets quote CarlaG's first statement taking the fall for Robin:

Before this thread is dropped please allow me to make a couple points very clear ...
Most importantly, at least to me, is to point out to Marie and Jerry Z. that the"creepy" and Twilight Zoneish" comments came from ME. Not Robin. Robin was very diplomatic and likened NC to Epcot.

Finally lets quote CarlaG's second statement taking the fall for Robin

Again - I said it and I wrote it and I take full responsibility for doing so. I simply don't like the place. So what? This is not a real estate site trying to sell homes.

Curious never once does Robin credit you with the quote by your name and and "creepy" appears to be 100% his statement unlike another where he credits Mary which you say now that Robin said. He clearly says:

"It's a little too much like Epcot," Mary mused

Never taking credit for that quote you say he made.

So does Robin not write his own column? It is his column as Bourbon Blog is yours and what you write there you clearly own too, not someone else trying to take the fall for your statements. Sorry CarlaG we are not trying to sell homes, they sell themselves. We are only pointing out prejudicial poor journalism and a person showing total disrespect to others and where they live. The only thing that one might consider "creepy" is the person who pretends to be an unbiased journalist.

The facts clearly speak for themselves in Robin's own words. Nothing less than a full apology from Robin to Norton Commons is acceptable!

...and Robin I am sure this will all disappear into the vapor but copies have been saved.

Oh CarlaG let me educate you. I made the statement earlier but lets make it totally clear so that you will understand it. In one of your comments you said again without knowledge which has been offered to you:

It did not originate as a melting pot of all socioeconomic backgrounds based on its original price points for homes. As I stated before, since the real estate bubble bust that may have changed due to the nessesity of selling already built properties and more reasonably priced housing has been made available. Good. Now it stands a chance of really becoming a diverse neighborhood but, as I stated earlier, it did not originate that way.

Since I said it earlier in the thread and you apparently missed it I will quote myself:

Let's start with the basic concept behind Norton Commons. The whole idea behind Norton Commons is to be a melting pot of people from all socioeconomic backgrounds. There is an entire building of condos in Norton Commons that lease in the $600 range based on financial assets. There are lots of apartments now too and yes some are luxury apartments. There are also other condos and apartments at price points all over the place.

Another benefit of the mixed pricing is you see entire generations of families living in Norton Commons. It's not unusual to see the adult kids move in followed by their parents. There are even cases of cousins, aunts and uncles too! Some even start family businesses.

Those $600 a month apartments and many of the LOWER PRICED UNITS WERE BUILT AT THE INCEPTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT nothing at all to do with any real estate bubbles. It is and always had been a Community designed to serve a diverse group of the population which again I offer my free tour services to learn more for those who truly want to learn. To others I am sure your ignorance is bliss and I have no doubt you will continue to make statements with no basis in fact. Have a nice day CarlyG!

Geez! The Norton Commons cheering section is out in force! While I appreciate the enthusiasm, things are getting just a bit hot. Jerry, will NC send a nasty note like they did to the Germantown Times satire site? That was a bit thin- skinned IMHO. No one has to like everywhere. I live in Shelby Park and own a business in Portland. Both are considered "blighted" (and that is one of the nicest words used) by some of my friends and former co-workers. I find both have people who have a history and properties with character (or is that the other way around?). I defend my neighborhoods, but I do not get in a lather over it. It is people's OPINIONS, not written in stone and thrown at you.

Just a note of interest: my eldest daughter lives in an area that has a similar development (it actually looks like a clone of Norton Commons), just about 10 years older. Right now, the property values are going down and the township is having problems keeping up the infrastructure. The development company broke most of their promises and are now making the apartments section 8. Is this reflective of Norton commons? Probably not, but just understand it started out about exactly the same. Keep an eye on your property, don't stress over what others think, it is not worth the high blood pressure. Peace!

PS - I watched the place being built from day one, my previous job had me there several days a month. I met many of the contractors, workers and initial residents. I may have even seen you.

I don't have a problem with NC. It's just another burb, clearly better planned than many others.

Still, I take issue with the claim that there are people of "all socioeconomic backgrounds" based upon "one building" that has condos not reserved for the rich, but clearly not the poor either. The zip code is one of the the ten wealthiest in the state -- and there is nothing wrong with that. But digging for awhile I just cannot, outside of that one building, find any evidence of socioeconomic diversity.

If I had to live in an east end burb, I'd pick it over a number of others. But first, I'd need a lot of money beyond my teacher's salary if I wanted to live anywhere outside of that one building.

My issue and the issue for others has always been the use of the word "creepy" by a journalist who one would not expect to see that type of language originate from. Because of some trying to cover up for him and an apparent lack of knowledge as to what Norton Commons is, the who thing has blossomed to a much bigger discussion than is necessary.

I apologize for the length of all this to make a simple point and to educate where knowledge is most obvious lacking. As I mentioned I live in the first homes. The trees are maturing nicely and one can really get the feel for what will be in the years ahead as the rest of the neighborhood continues to grow and mature. I am not a Realtor or trying to sell homes. I am like many of you from all over Louisville just passionate about where we live. When a journalist calls my home "creepy" I will react as I am sure many of you would. When I see someone creating a very wrong fact set with obviously no knowledge to fit their agenda I will react as I am sure you would. When I see someone covering up for someone else...Yes I will react as I am sure you would. SO BEAR ALL THIS IN MIND as you pour through this.

Since there appears to be some ignorance about New Urbanism and Traditional Neighborhoods I will end with Defining elements as described by Andrés Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk, two of the founders of the Congress for the New Urbanism, and both involved as the original Norton Commons Town Architects.

A park in Celebration, Florida (We also have a huge one in Norton Commons with an Amphitheater with concerts open to everyone.)
The neighborhood has a discernible center. This is often a square or a green and sometimes a busy or memorable street corner. A transit stop would be located at this center.
Most of the dwellings are within a five-minute walk of the center, an average of roughly 0.25 miles (0.40 km).
There are a variety of dwelling types — usually houses, rowhouses, and apartments — so that younger and older people, singles and families, the poor and the wealthy may find places to live.
At the edge of the neighborhood, there are shops and offices of sufficiently varied types to supply the weekly needs of a household.
A small ancillary building or garage apartment is permitted within the backyard of each house. It may be used as a rental unit or place to work (for example, an office or craft workshop).
An elementary school is close enough so that most children can walk from their home.
There are small playgrounds accessible to every dwelling — not more than a tenth of a mile away.
Streets within the neighborhood form a connected network, which disperses traffic by providing a variety of pedestrian and vehicular routes to any destination.
The streets are relatively narrow and shaded by rows of trees. This slows traffic, creating an environment suitable for pedestrians and bicycles.
Buildings in the neighborhood center are placed close to the street, creating a well-defined outdoor room.
Parking lots and garage doors rarely front the street. Parking is relegated to the rear of buildings, usually accessed by alleys.
Certain prominent sites at the termination of street vistas or in the neighborhood center are reserved for civic buildings. These provide sites for community meetings, education, and religious or cultural activities.

When you visit Norton Commons their imprint is so obvious throughout the Norton Commons community. Again my free tour offer extends to all with the desire to learn more.

That is all very nice, but even though you got the elementary school, I will guarantee you that not all your kids will get to go there. JCPS will send them all over God's little acre and bring in kids from all over. You also don't want to know some of the comments I heard from the very people building and marketing the area regarding who gets to live there. I am not associating any of that to you or your neighbors, just know they may not not have the same vision they profess to.

I am glad you love your neighborhood, we all should have such passion.