Fast-food minimum wage, lies and lying liars ...

This is why you cant listen to some pundit or politician or corporate mouthpiece say something to the effect of, "Raising the minimum wage will have a disastrous effect on job growth!" Because its never that simple.

There is also the simple issue of historical perspective: Ever since WWII, every time there is a proposed increase in the minimum wage, industry whines and shrieks "It will destroy joooobbbbsss!!" Every single time. And it never does. Not one single time. It's a selfish, greedy theme that has been shown untrue in the real world.

What Santayana said about the lessons of history.

I think a 100% raise would be a different story.

Guys....good luck on this issue as well. Like everything else.....so many want to be right and won't look at another viewpoint. It is very complicated to say the least.....I am hungry! What will I have today!

[Robin Garr]

I think a 100% raise would be a different story.

Yeah, normally I'd go along with that. An exception might be arguable, though, if raises had been deferred for an unconscionable time.

Saw this on Twitter the other day, and it gave me a chuckle.

Sorry. I've been busy today doing what Neanderthals do. I'll try to respond in depth later.

In the mean time, I came across this article about a California winery going out of business due to minimum wage enforcement, even though the 'employees' were happy to do what they were doing. Just another example of the government helping people out.

This one cuts me close to home!

Guys....good luck on this issue as well. Like everything else.....so many want to be right and won't look at another viewpoint. It is very complicated to say the least.

Agreed its complicated. But quite frankly it has very little to do with "viewpoint" and has everything to do with measurable facts, and basing policy decisions off those facts.

I mean my God how long did idiots in this country buy into the whole "trickle down" economic theory? Or I thought we learned following the Great Depression that not promoting job creation through government spending on labor projects was disastrous. But it seemed we didnt and repeated the whole horrible mess all over again during the last recession and sequestration.

Quite simply the electorate in this country, on all sides, needs a smack to the head. This is the governing of our nation, not your favorite NFL football team. Stop supporting your "team" and its players (ie candidates) no matter what. Start thinking for yourselves and learn to tell the difference between a pundit/spokesperson with a CLEAR conflict of interest trying to feed you a line of shit, and a generally more unbiased peer reviewed academically supported research position.

So you ask me why I talk down to people? Because we as a species are either too damn dumb to tell the difference between facts and bullshit, or simply to lazy to care. Neither of which speaks highly of humans. I expect more from us, and am constantly disappointed.

Sorry. I've been busy today doing what Neanderthals do. I'll try to respond in depth later.

In the mean time, I came across this article about a California winery going out of business due to minimum wage enforcement, even though the 'employees' were happy to do what they were doing. Just another example of the government helping people out.

This one cuts me close to home!

Apart from the minimum wage debate, I read the above article and I'm sorry, but I wager there is a heck of a great deal more going on in that circumstance that did not come to light in the article. Somewhere some vital aspect of the story was omitted. If not, all volunteers would be at stake and that isn't the case.

This is why you cant listen to some pundit or politician or corporate mouthpiece say something to the effect of, "Raising the minimum wage will have a disastrous effect on job growth!" Because its never that simple.

There is also the simple issue of historical perspective: Ever since WWII, every time there is a proposed increase in the minimum wage, industry whines and shrieks "It will destroy joooobbbbsss!!" Every single time. And it never does. Not one single time. It's a selfish, greedy theme that has been shown untrue in the real world.

What Santayana said about the lessons of history.

This is very true. Every single time there has been a wage increase industry cries big crocodile tears, stomps their feet and makes dire predictions that have never come true.

[Robin Garr]

I came across this article about a California winery going out of business due to minimum wage enforcement

Nice, but not factual. Westover Winery remains in business, taking orders, and updating their Website with routine announcements.
http://www.westovervineyards.com/

I can't help but notice that your blogger is also a climate skeptic and an advocate for privatizing public parks. All of 'em. Parm me for making the quick assumption that he is an idiot.

I came across this article about a California winery going out of business due to minimum wage enforcement

Nice, but not factual. Westover Winery remains in business, taking orders, and updating their Website with routine announcements.
http://www.westovervineyards.com/

I guess you missed these announcements where it looks like they are wrapping things up.

Also, I'm wondering if you clicked through the posting that I linked to the newspaper article where the information originally came from? Now, I have no idea what this newspaper's agenda might be beyond reporting a local story, so maybe they are idiots to be safely ignored also?

In the link I provided above , the winery website links to a similar article from their "News" page.

I can't help but notice that your blogger is also a climate skeptic and an advocate for privatizing public parks. All of 'em. Parm me for making the quick assumption that he is an idiot.

You need to read more about him if you think he's an idiot. I know your information cocoon is close to hermetically sealed, but I promise you won't get cooties reading articles from people you disagree with, especially if it amounts to just following a link to a newspaper article.

Here's an example of an area where you likely agree. But you wouldn't know that because you already consigned him to your 'idiot' bin.

Apart from the minimum wage debate, I read the above article and I'm sorry, but I wager there is a heck of a great deal more going on in that circumstance that did not come to light in the article. Somewhere some vital aspect of the story was omitted. If not, all volunteers would be at stake and that isn't the case.

Perhaps you missed this part of the article:

State law prohibits for-profit businesses from using volunteers.

Guys....good luck on this issue as well. Like everything else.....so many want to be right and won't look at another viewpoint. It is very complicated to say the least.

Agreed its complicated. But quite frankly it has very little to do with "viewpoint" and has everything to do with measurable facts, and basing policy decisions off those facts.

I mean my God how long did idiots in this country buy into the whole "trickle down" economic theory? Or I thought we learned following the Great Depression that not promoting job creation through government spending on labor projects was disastrous. But it seemed we didnt and repeated the whole horrible mess all over again during the last recession and sequestration.

Quite simply the electorate in this country, on all sides, needs a smack to the head. This is the governing of our nation, not your favorite NFL football team. Stop supporting your "team" and its players (ie candidates) no matter what. Start thinking for yourselves and learn to tell the difference between a pundit/spokesperson with a CLEAR conflict of interest trying to feed you a line of shit, and a generally more unbiased peer reviewed academically supported research position.

So you ask me why I talk down to people? Because we as a species are either too damn dumb to tell the difference between facts and bullshit, or simply to lazy to care. Neither of which speaks highly of humans. I expect more from us, and am constantly disappointed.

I think you hit it on the head in your last paragraph. I think we are too dumb and lazy to know the difference between bullshit and facts. Facts are one thing, but when those facts are put with expectations....it becomes bullshit.....and they may be the basis of our economic policy. In our country....you can place a set of facts to the groups on two sides of an issue and they will each come up with a way to spin it in their favor. The same can be said for the "facts".....who is gathering the facts and can the data be trusted. I am sure you understand the two-sides of the story but some only see how it affects them personally instead of the true facts. Humans have emotions and those emotions prevent people from seeing the truth (which I believe you say are facts).

I am with you.....I am sorry I called you out Doug.....it is a chat room and there are no consequences to our actions in here...lol

Apart from the minimum wage debate, I read the above article and I'm sorry, but I wager there is a heck of a great deal more going on in that circumstance that did not come to light in the article. Somewhere some vital aspect of the story was omitted. If not, all volunteers would be at stake and that isn't the case.

Perhaps you missed this part of the article:

State law prohibits for-profit businesses from using volunteers.

Nope. I got that part. I stand by my comment.

TIMEOUT: I do want to point out that there are economists that differ on what Doug is stating as unassailable fact. To say that there is only one economic school of thought at work about minimum wage is to say the least a Fatal Conceit... and some of those who disagree happen to also be Nobel laureates, in economics no less! The amount of economic theory that disagrees with Doug, could fill an entire school, in Chicago or Austria say... So let's not get too caught up in our own favorite paradigms here. I've read a thing or two once upon a time too. So let's chill with all the name calling, and argumentum ad hominem. It's getting pretty thick.

Ok Doug and Steve round... what page are we on?? GO!

TIMEOUT: I do want to point out that there are economists that differ on what Doug is stating as unassailable fact. To say that there is only one economic school of thought at work about minimum wage is to say the least a Fatal Conceit... and some of those who disagree happen to also be Nobel laureates, in economics no less! The amount of economic theory that disagrees with Doug, could fill an entire school, in Chicago or Austria say... So let's not get too caught up in our own favorite paradigms here. I've read a thing or two once upon a time too. So let's chill with all the name calling, and argumentum ad hominem. It's getting pretty thick.

Ok Doug and Steve round... what page are we on?? GO!

I'll be waiting for an actual source and or a quote.

TIMEOUT: I do want to point out that there are economists that differ on what Doug is stating as unassailable fact. To say that there is only one economic school of thought at work about minimum wage is to say the least a Fatal Conceit... and some of those who disagree happen to also be Nobel laureates, in economics no less! The amount of economic theory that disagrees with Doug, could fill an entire school, in Chicago or Austria say... So let's not get too caught up in our own favorite paradigms here. I've read a thing or two once upon a time too. So let's chill with all the name calling, and argumentum ad hominem. It's getting pretty thick.

Well said Adriel....Thank you!