LMPD raid/shut down Bardstown Rd bar

If you are not doing anything wrong, why worry about being searched?????? I am sorry, I think you also forfeit your rights when you hang out in a place like that.....there may be a few people who get there rights violated but it is time to clean up this country.

WOW you can't be serious. So you advocate a police state to prevent drug use????

How about a better idea. Legalize drugs and tax them. Use some of the bazillions of dollars we spend locking people up for non-violent drug offenses for treatment centers for those who WANT to get cleaned up, and put the rest back into our pockets. This creates tons of revenue for the government and saves the citizens money, eliminates black market drug crime, and empties out our overcrowded prison system.

People want to use drugs and drive? Punish them just like you do for using alcohol.

"Time to clean up our country"? I would honestly love to know what you mean by that. Do you mean eliminate drug use? That is not a realistic possibility, as evidenced by the entire history of humanity.

Not at all Steve H....I was talking about some that come on and push stats and sources, etc. The guy early in the thread was talking down to a few people.

Not into that at all.....it is all good....it is a foodie site anyhow...lol

I really hope you're trolling.

I am serious....are you? Why can't we have a difference of opinion?

I am not advocating anything....I am expressing my opinions....I am ok with being searched for the greater good. I understand others don't like it. Legalization is not a bad idea......I hesitate to get into the conversation as I don't know what should be legal and what should. I don't do drugs so it does not affect me personally.

So we legalize it....can I then pull you over and test you when you are driving on a public road? Is that a fair compromise?

My thing big issue is if you drive on a public road you do so with the right that it be as safe as possible. I don't think your right not to be searched trumps my right to safety. You can take the illegal search thing a lot further but I am trying to keep it simple. It is not black and white or cut and dry.

"Time to clean up our country"? I would honestly love to know what you mean by that. Do you mean eliminate drug use? That is not a realistic possibility, as evidenced by the entire history of humanity.[/quote]

"Time to clean up our country"? I would honestly love to know what you mean by that. Do you mean eliminate drug use? That is not a realistic possibility, as evidenced by the entire history of humanity.

Exactly what I said....we need to clean up our country....we need to get back on track....I mean to eliminate illegal drug use (if that means legalizing some). I hope you don't want to legalize meth? You surely don't think that is recreational.

IMHO....Our political system is broke, the rich guide the country, little incentive for the poor to work hard, legal system is a joke, etc.

Do you think everything is going great in our country? Want to talk about racial relations?

I am serious....are you? Why can't we have a difference of opinion?

You are saying you are absolutely OK with a police state. You are saying you think it should be OK for the police to violate laws, many of which are the entire purpose for the foundation of this country. Sure, we can have differing opinions; I just have a very hard time believing that your opinion is in earnest. I've never actually seen anyone say they're OK with those things outside of trolling.

I am not advocating anything....I am expressing my opinions....I am ok with being searched for the greater good. I understand others don't like it. Legalization is not a bad idea......I hesitate to get into the conversation as I don't know what should be legal and what should. I don't do drugs so it does not affect me personally.

It doesn't matter if you're OK with it. It's illegal for them to do. Those are the laws of our nation. They're important laws. They're part of why we exist. Their entire job is to uphold the law -- and most of them take it relatively seriously and don't like other cops who think they should be able to do these things.

So we legalize it....can I then pull you over and test you when you are driving on a public road? Is that a fair compromise?

No, you can't ever pull me over on a public road unless you have substantial reason to believe I have committed or aided in a crime or other violation, or am currently committing a crime or other violation -- in which case, go for it. It is not ok if we "legalize it" that _anyone_ can be pulled over at any time and tested. You're suggesting everyone should have to give up any right they have because certain people abuse things. I understand you're sticking on alcohol and drugs, and that's obviously more sympathetic (and usually far more obvious), but what about every other thing on Earth? Can I go through all your personal communications to see if you've done anything wrong? What about your family and friends? Can I come into your house and ransack the place looking for anything potentially illegal? Can I detain you and take you to jail for no reason because I suspect maybe you've done something?

And can I please assume that you're in the social demographic who doesn't regularly get harassed by the police because their socioeconomic status is "reason to believe they've done something wrong"? Or have the leisure that if you get stopped by the police "just to make sure" that you aren't going to lose your job for being 10 minutes late to work?

A lot of people have died to defend these rights. It's a poor way of thinking, IMO, to "be ok with police doing whatever they want" because "I'm not doing anything wrong." Of course you are. You break the law every single day. It is impossible not to -- there are so unbelievably many of them on the books. And you could always potentially be breaking any law, which seems to be your point of reference. You can't allow the absolute absence of constitutional protection on just things "you don't do so you don't care" without opening yourself up, both legally and conceptually, to the loss of your protections for the things you do do.

My thing big issue is if you drive on a public road you do so with the right that it be as safe as possible. I don't think your right not to be searched trumps my right to safety. You can take the illegal search thing a lot further but I am trying to keep it simple. It is not black and white or cut and dry.

Then I don't think you have a right to drive with the radio on, with the windshield wipers going, with anyone else talking to you, nor should you have a right to move your arms, legs, or head in any way except that which moves the car. I think everyone should be pulled over to make sure they're not doing any of these things, no matter what they're doing. What I am doing there is intentionally exaggerating the likelihood of your safety being impaired by the actions of another in relation, ignoring all evidence to the contrary, and recommending you lose your rights because of a statistical improbability. Because inattention is a greater risk to your safety than every single other factor combined -- it dwarfs all the other car crashes, and significantly dwarfs it on multi-vehicle accidents. You are directly advocating that the police have the right to do whatever they want under any circumstance for any law, even if you feel you're just defending something that you "don't do" and don't like. That's a bad way to go, man. Not even the police would agree with you on this, IMO.

If your white clean cut and live in a white middle to upper class neighbor hood u wont have your house are car searched prob ever but if u live in the hood u prob will how is that liberty for all ?? Can anybody tell me that . ? ?

If your white clean cut and live in a white middle to upper class neighbor hood u wont have your house are car searched prob ever but if u live in the hood u prob will how is that liberty for all ?? Can anybody tell me that . ? ?

Ooooo....Ooooo...I know...I know...pick me...pick me...<raises hand> Maybe the reason more people get searched in "the hood" is because most violent crime is committed in "the hood"....or did you want the 500 word reply ?

Getting back to the cash thing, if you are doing no wrong, then it should be easy to prove the cash is yours. How often does this happen? I know people that carry a minimum of $2000 with them at all times....and have more at their homes. Never met anyone in which law enforcement stole money from them. If I was a drug dealer, I would probably tell the cop I was going to get some dental work done, probably some caps being put on.

I'm going to have to differ on this one. Unwarranted police seizure of cash is becoming a major problem in this country as departments start depending on those seizures to fill out their budgets,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/invest ... and-seize/

If your white clean cut and live in a white middle to upper class neighbor hood u wont have your house are car searched prob ever but if u live in the hood u prob will how is that liberty for all ?? Can anybody tell me that . ? ?

Ooooo....Ooooo...I know...I know...pick me...pick me...<raises hand> Maybe the reason more people get searched in "the hood" is because most violent crime is committed in "the hood"....or did you want the 500 word reply ?

Steve-
I'll need to dig into the stats, but I recall that in NYC under "Stop and Frisk", the searches of whites actually turned up contraband in a slightly larger percentage of cases than similar searches of blacks. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.

violent crime

And to put in my own opinion.

Cahoots was/is a sketchy place, has been for years, and everybody knows it. No different than knowing that your neighbor sells drugs but they are "good" people and doing nothing. At some point, enough is enough, and you have to call the police.

For the most part I have no problem with drug use. Do it on your own, stay off the roads, don't hurt anyone, and it is your business. Bring it to my block, stagger across the street and block traffic on my road and I'm calling the cops. I've had it happen in a rental house a few doors down and nobody in the neighborhood liked it.

I'm guessing that is what happened at Cahoots. A neighboring business or neighbor probably called it in and gave to po-po the RIGHT to search (pat down) the place.

These searches are not happening at random. The searches are happening where they need to be. I'm guessing the people against the pat down have never been in Cahoots.

From what I've read a pat down and search are totally different animals.

These searches are not happening at random. The searches are happening where they need to be. I'm guessing the people against the pat down have never been in Cahoots.

If they needed to be done, then that means a warrant would be justified and they should've had one, and to pat down or search the pockets, purses, and effects of anyone there they would have to be named specifically in that warrant. Failure to do that is not only lazy police work, but illegal, and contrary to the oath police take to the constitution, and the mandate they are given by their fellow citizens to protect them. I've been to Cahoot's and I wouldn't want to be treated like that, nor should anyone else. I'm not against pat downs because I've got pockets full of illicit drugs, I'm against them because I care about people's dignity.

From what I've read a pat down and search are totally different animals.

Sort of. All pat downs are searches, not all searches are pat downs. They do both require "reasonable suspicion" however, and merely being in an establishment whether it's Taco Bell, 610 Magnolia, or Cahoots, does not pass that muster for either "reasonable" or "suspicion". You would have no reason at all to be suspected of anything, no matter the places reputation. There is no sign on Cahoot's door that says only drug toting criminals allowed beyond this point. Or at least there wasn't last time I went...

I am serious....are you? Why can't we have a difference of opinion?

You are saying you are absolutely OK with a police state. You are saying you think it should be OK for the police to violate laws, many of which are the entire purpose for the foundation of this country. Sure, we can have differing opinions; I just have a very hard time believing that your opinion is in earnest. I've never actually seen anyone say they're OK with those things outside of trolling.

I am not advocating anything....I am expressing my opinions....I am ok with being searched for the greater good. I understand others don't like it. Legalization is not a bad idea......I hesitate to get into the conversation as I don't know what should be legal and what should. I don't do drugs so it does not affect me personally.

It doesn't matter if you're OK with it. It's illegal for them to do. Those are the laws of our nation. They're important laws. They're part of why we exist. Their entire job is to uphold the law -- and most of them take it relatively seriously and don't like other cops who think they should be able to do these things.

So we legalize it....can I then pull you over and test you when you are driving on a public road? Is that a fair compromise?

No, you can't ever pull me over on a public road unless you have substantial reason to believe I have committed or aided in a crime or other violation, or am currently committing a crime or other violation -- in which case, go for it. It is not ok if we "legalize it" that _anyone_ can be pulled over at any time and tested. You're suggesting everyone should have to give up any right they have because certain people abuse things. I understand you're sticking on alcohol and drugs, and that's obviously more sympathetic (and usually far more obvious), but what about every other thing on Earth? Can I go through all your personal communications to see if you've done anything wrong? What about your family and friends? Can I come into your house and ransack the place looking for anything potentially illegal? Can I detain you and take you to jail for no reason because I suspect maybe you've done something?

And can I please assume that you're in the social demographic who doesn't regularly get harassed by the police because their socioeconomic status is "reason to believe they've done something wrong"? Or have the leisure that if you get stopped by the police "just to make sure" that you aren't going to lose your job for being 10 minutes late to work?

A lot of people have died to defend these rights. It's a poor way of thinking, IMO, to "be ok with police doing whatever they want" because "I'm not doing anything wrong." Of course you are. You break the law every single day. It is impossible not to -- there are so unbelievably many of them on the books. And you could always potentially be breaking any law, which seems to be your point of reference. You can't allow the absolute absence of constitutional protection on just things "you don't do so you don't care" without opening yourself up, both legally and conceptually, to the loss of your protections for the things you do do.

My thing big issue is if you drive on a public road you do so with the right that it be as safe as possible. I don't think your right not to be searched trumps my right to safety. You can take the illegal search thing a lot further but I am trying to keep it simple. It is not black and white or cut and dry.

Then I don't think you have a right to drive with the radio on, with the windshield wipers going, with anyone else talking to you, nor should you have a right to move your arms, legs, or head in any way except that which moves the car. I think everyone should be pulled over to make sure they're not doing any of these things, no matter what they're doing. What I am doing there is intentionally exaggerating the likelihood of your safety being impaired by the actions of another in relation, ignoring all evidence to the contrary, and recommending you lose your rights because of a statistical improbability. Because inattention is a greater risk to your safety than every single other factor combined -- it dwarfs all the other car crashes, and significantly dwarfs it on multi-vehicle accidents. You are directly advocating that the police have the right to do whatever they want under any circumstance for any law, even if you feel you're just defending something that you "don't do" and don't like. That's a bad way to go, man. Not even the police would agree with you on this, IMO.

Adam, Well said.

As for the "if you have nothing to hide, what's the problem?" I am incredulous!

Bet there are a lot of drugs in the east end pot , coke , downers but dont see the police searching bars there ? Only were there are kids and minorities why is that ?? If u g ot money and a pocket full of coke at Valhalla I bet they dont pat u down ( and I worked at high end places we're there were bookies hookers and drugs, but for the wealthy and everbody looked other way ): im not full of b.s. !

And steve the only reason I say this is because its what iv seen in my 25 years in bars and high end places . I like the police they aren't all bad people and god knows I woudnt want to live w out them . But freedom has to be for all . And searching someone with out warrent is wrong wrong wrong