Quick poll: Would you dine al fresco if there's smoking?

[Robin Garr]

Isn't it weird that the folks most strongly against tobacco are silent about marijuana smoking? See, it's healthy when it's marijuana! Seems like it's more about the folks making and using tobacco than it is actually about the tobacco.

Hand raised here: I have NO problem with people smoking tobacco, clove cigs, wacky terbackky or even catalpa cigars in private settings. But I don't want any of those stenchy things invading my space when I'm eating in a public place.

That's where smoking in all its forms differs with most of the other minor vices on Stevie P's list (except possibly SUVs): You can't do it in public without being obnoxious to your neighbors. If you insist on asserting a right to be obnoxious to your neighbors, then you are more-or-less defining yourself as an @$$#*|3.

Another point that hasn't been mentioned about second-hand smoke: The public-policy argument in favor of no-smoking practices was not aimed at the obnoxious but relatively minor exposure people get as restaurant diners. It was aimed at protecting restaurant employees who have to be exposed to it regularly and long-term, a situation that significantly increases the purported carcinogenic risk.

I have NO problem with people smoking tobacco, clove cigs, wacky terbackky or even catalpa cigars in private settings. But I don't want any of those stenchy things invading my space when I'm eating in a public place.

I'm now catching up on this thread after commenting in the other smoking thread. I'm still with you Robin, I get you have a strong dislike for the smoking. But how do you get around that it IS a PUBLIC setting, and you are wishing to impose your PERSONAL preference. No animosity, just looking for clarity. I have things I don't like that occur in public. Talking in theaters that is non movie related, public evangelism, those "shoes" with the toe pocket things, getting "waved on" at stop signs. But I don't feel the need to impose a law or restriction on the offender of my personal sensibilities.

That's where smoking in all its forms differs with most of the other minor vices on Stevie P's list (except possibly SUVs):

Minor vices..... OK, here's a challenge...figure out how many minutes and hours you've been ranting/raving/losing sleep and/or gnashing your teeth over the issue of smoking at outdoor restaurants and spend the -same- amount of time researching ASPARTAME, the active ingredient in "diet" products (soft drinks, gum, etc etc)... THEN come back and with a straight face tell us all that the health issues of second hand smoke at outdoor restaurant is even on the -radar- of important public health dangers.

BTW, I'm thinking the poll results are (so far) not the landslide you had hoped for. Not to worry, still time to stuff the old ballot box ....Looking forward to reading your objective article in the next fish wrapper.

Forgive me Robin, for I have sinned. I took the liberty of editing your remarks to address an issue that is equally important to many of us. Perhaps while on your crusade to ban smoking in all it's forms you could remember those of us who might have other equally serious issues when dining out.

Hand raised here: I have NO problem with people having children in private settings. But I don't want any of those stenchy little crumb crawling miniature maniacs invading my space when I'm eating in a public place.

That's where children in all there forms differ with most of the other minor vices on Stevie P's list (except possibly SUVs): You can't have young children in public without being obnoxious to your neighbors. If you insist on asserting a right to be obnoxious to your neighbors, then you are more-or-less defining yourself as an @$$#*|3.

Another point that hasn't been mentioned about second-hand children: The public-policy argument in favor of no-children in public places was not aimed at the obnoxious parents who can't keep their little crib lizards in check or the relatively minor exposure people get as restaurant diners. It was aimed at protecting restaurant employees from tripping over little crayon gobblers and who are exposed to the little snot monsters regularly and long-term, a situation that significantly increases the purported risk of slitting ones wrists.

BTW, I'm thinking the poll results are (so far) not the landslide you had hoped for. Not to worry, still time to stuff the old ballot box ....Looking forward to reading your objective article in the next fish wrapper.

I was thinking the same thing, but also wonder how many of the 30% (Sure, Why not?) are smokers?

[Robin Garr]

BTW, I'm thinking the poll results are (so far) not the landslide you had hoped for. Not to worry, still time to stuff the old ballot box ....Looking forward to reading your objective article in the next fish wrapper.

I was thinking the same thing, but also wonder how many of the 30% (Sure, Why not?) are smokers?

I for one am amazed at Stevie's ability to peek inside my head and discern what I'm thinking and what I'm going to do. It's quite a gift.

I do think those numbers have been interesting, especially viewed over time. At the outset, the "bring it on" vote had only one or two. It started catching up only after a couple of days, then piled on the coal. Coincidence? Could be? Indicates that most of the forum "regulars" are anti-smoke fascists while more occasional visitors are not? Maybe. Or maybe someone is contacting friends who don't come around much and urging them to bring some balance to the equation? Could be that, too.

BTW, I'm thinking the poll results are (so far) not the landslide you had hoped for. Not to worry, still time to stuff the old ballot box ....Looking forward to reading your objective article in the next fish wrapper.

I was thinking the same thing, but also wonder how many of the 30% (Sure, Why not?) are smokers?

I for one am amazed at Stevie's ability to peek inside my head and discern what I'm thinking and what I'm going to do. It's quite a gift.

I do think those numbers have been interesting, especially viewed over time. At the outset, the "bring it on" vote had only one or two. It started catching up only after a couple of days, then piled on the coal. Coincidence? Could be? Indicates that most of the forum "regulars" are anti-smoke fascists while more occasional visitors are not? Maybe. Or maybe someone is contacting friends who don't come around much and urging them to bring some balance to the equation? Could be that, too.

This is easy math, the smokers were out having a cig not refreshing the page as often.

...l always get a great big chuckle...If you don't like smelling smoke, then dammit...say you don't like smelling smoke...

Glad we make you chuckle. Dammit, I don't like smelling smoke.

Hence, my vote to go inside (or leave).

But, again, regardless of health effects (or not), dammit, I don't like smelling smoke.

I ditto Jay. I want to eat alfresco to enjoy the atmosphere. I have cigarette smoke allergies ( nose stops up, eyes get itchy, have to dose on Benadryl), and while this is minimized outside, more importantly it stinks and ruins the atmosphere. We chose restaurants specifically for their al fresco dining ( Love it!) but if it's a smoking haven, we'll go somewhere else.
Deb

...l always get a great big chuckle...If you don't like smelling smoke, then dammit...say you don't like smelling smoke...

Glad we make you chuckle. Dammit, I don't like smelling smoke.

Hence, my vote to go inside (or leave).

But, again, regardless of health effects (or not), dammit, I don't like smelling smoke.

I ditto Jay. I want to eat alfresco to enjoy the atmosphere. I have cigarette smoke allergies ( nose stops up, eyes get itchy, have to dose on Benadryl), and while this is minimized outside, more importantly it stinks and ruins the atmosphere. We chose restaurants specifically for their al fresco dining ( Love it!) but if it's a smoking haven, we'll go somewhere else.
Deb

We do exactly the same thing! There is nothing that ruins a nice meal faster than the smell of smoke.

I smoked for 15 years, could never manage to quit for more than a few months. Switched to e-cigarettes back in December and haven't smoked a tobacco cigarette since. (Not the crappy kind you buy in the gas station.)

I would recommend to anyone who wants to quit to give them a try. Its a little bit complicated to get started but there are a lot of resources on the internet.

I bring this up because probably in the next decade or so you are going to be seeing a lot more "vapers" and a lot less smokers. The vapor is odorless and dissipates much more quickly than smoke does. Basically, it would not be at all intrusive to your outdoor dining experience whereas tobacco smoke is. I'm sure people will still complain that the second hand vapor is ruining their health though. But its by far the lesser of two evils.

So there is some hope on the horizon for people who hate smoke. However if you are hoping that the entire population will one day permanently quit breathing unhealthy stuff into their lungs...good luck with that.

[Robin Garr]

I bring this up because probably in the next decade or so you are going to be seeing a lot more "vapers" and a lot less smokers. The vapor is odorless and dissipates much more quickly than smoke does. Basically, it would not be at all intrusive to your outdoor dining experience whereas tobacco smoke is.

Maybe sooner. I had a seminary friend who used one in the cafeteria when we were working as chaplain interns at Baptist East last summer. I mention this because it is a totally non-smoking campus, but she did it so discreetly that no one ever noticed. I picked up on it one day after lunch when I caught the faintest hint of cigarette, but it was so minimal that it didn't bother me (or anyone else) at all. Of course, hospital management would probably not have been happy at all, but nobody was going to tell them.

Saw my first "no vaping" signs a few weeks ago in an Irish bar in Atlanta.

[Robin Garr]

Saw my first "no vaping" signs a few weeks ago in an Irish bar in Atlanta.

I wonder why they care. As I posted above, a friend used one for weeks in a fairly strict setting, and nobody was the wiser.

My husband vapes - hasn't had a tobacco cigarette in at least 3-4 years. Tried to quit a number of times before and nothing else worked. He's also turned several of his hard-core smoking friends onto vaping too because it's worked so well for him.
I'm puzzled by the " no vaping" signs. Vaping has very little smell ( depending on flavor) and I'd guess ( but you guys will correct me if I'm wrong ) that the tar is what causes the secondary smoke issues. ( only nicotine with vaping, and that depends on how much you chose to use). I could see at a crowded bar that tons of vapers, with different flavors could lead to a scent issue, but otherwise I'm confused as to the restriction.
Deb

I vape. I was a pack a day smoker for 40 years and didn't intend to quit. I got my first e-cig so that I wouldn't go crazy at the basketball games. I haven't smoked a cigarette since December 8, 2010.

E-cigs are being subjected to inclusion in most anti-smoking laws. This is because of misinformation being spread by the lung and heart associations at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies, who make a fortune off Nicorette and Chantix and nothing off of e-cigs.