What has been lost and why others endure

What and why have some popular restaurants come and gone while others seem to defy evolution and continue to prosper. Your thoughts

Because popularity and good management don't always coincide? Just a guess.

[Robin Garr]

What and why have some popular restaurants come and gone while others seem to defy evolution and continue to prosper. Your thoughts

I think Steve Magruder hit it in one, although it would be awfully harsh to blame all restaurant failures on poor management.

Another way to put it might be that the culprit is almost invariably <b>cash flow</b>, although that still leaves deeper questions unanswered.

You have to be good enough to draw a crowd, and skilled enough to hold costs below revenues - at least in the longer term - without cutting so many corners that you're no longer good enough to draw a crowd.

How's that for a circular answer?

Then there are issues that lie outside this circle. Location, location, location. And do you have a product that people want, and enough of a crowd of potential supporters to make it happen in your particular niche? I've seen some excellent ethnic restaurants fail - Indian was tough in this market until the 1990s, and Greek always have been tough - because relatively few people here seemed to want those flavors. Pizza is popular, but it's hard to sell it if you're in the same block with an established, popular pizzeria. Or if you're trying to sell it in an out-of-the-way location where nobody goes.

The "buzz" seems critical - getting it going early, and keeping it. For the longer term, I think the ability of the chef to reinvent the menu is very important. Financially, Robin hit it on the head with the cash flow issue. The majority (admittedly an unscientific estimate) of new businesses of any type that fail typically do so because they have underestimated their cash needs in the first couple of years.

Because popularity and good management don't always coincide? Just a guess.

These are definitely both required for a restaurant to succeed. Even if they both exist at Opening I think many restaurants let one inside or the other falter as time goes on. They either lose popularity do to the fact that they rest on their laurels and don't evolve as the customer base evolves or since they're making good money they get a little slack on the management side and let expenses creep upward so that if income drops a little they are losing money. Probably most restaurants failures fall into one or the other of these scenarios but I'm sure a few fall into both. One other possible explanation is undercapitalization at opening so they are unable to overcome the costs associated with ramping up to a level of normal operation.

There are exceptions of course. Several local restaurants that have closed recently had no outward signs of problems and closed very unexpectedly. To me the most surprising one was Azela's followed closely by Bahama Breeze and Harper's. The only one of these with a possible visible explanation (other than rumors) is Harper's since they rapidly reopened in a new format.

What and why have some popular restaurants come and gone while others seem to defy evolution and continue to prosper. Your thoughts

I think Steve Magruder hit it in one, although it would be awfully harsh to blame all restaurant failures on poor management.

Another way to put it might be that the culprit is almost invariably <b>cash flow</b>, although that still leaves deeper questions unanswered.

You have to be good enough to draw a crowd, and skilled enough to hold costs below revenues - at least in the longer term - without cutting so many corners that you're no longer good enough to draw a crowd.

How's that for a circular answer?

Then there are issues that lie outside this circle. Location, location, location. And do you have a product that people want, and enough of a crowd of potential supporters to make it happen in your particular niche? I've seen some excellent ethnic restaurants fail - Indian was tough in this market until the 1990s, and Greek always have been tough - because relatively few people here seemed to want those flavors. Pizza is popular, but it's hard to sell it if you're in the same block with an established, popular pizzeria. Or if you're trying to sell it in an out-of-the-way location where nobody goes.

Okay.....speaking as someone who owned a relatively good and marginally successfull place that has since fallen by the wayside, I would say you are all spot-on on your posts. The only thing I would add to location, capital, management, etc.,(all of which I am quite privey too) is that some people let their own passion and vision of a better future blind them to the cold reality that really surrounds them. Sometimes, it is just the wrong time.........

WHY ? B-C'AUSE MONEY,PRETTY-NESS,AND TODAY'S2007 WANT IT ALL-EVERYONE IS MORE,MORE MORE. ALI -FORMOR FLIGHT ATENDANT 1991-2005.

*scratches eyes* Huh? I think I got that. Mostly...

Don't drink and post, kids. And stay in school.

[Robin Garr]

Don't drink and post, kids. And stay in school.

Watch treats, floss regularly, and get a checkup every six months.

And don't run with scissors. Especially through drafts.

WHY ? B-C'AUSE MONEY,PRETTY-NESS,AND TODAY'S2007 WANT IT ALL-EVERYONE IS MORE,MORE MORE. ALI -FORMOR FLIGHT ATENDANT 1991-2005.

Damn......I should have been a flight attendant instead, as it sounds like much more fun then doing that restaurant thing!!

Understanding that intelligent mangement is a given, I am amazed at the timeless concepts, like Pats and Linings to name a few, that seem to have changed very little over time and flourish were most retail concepts need constant evolving to stay active in the market. What do timeless concepts that change very little have?

[Robin Garr]

Understanding that intelligent mangement is a given, I am amazed at the timeless concepts, like Pats and Linings to name a few, that seem to have changed very little over time and flourish were most retail concepts need constant evolving to stay active in the market. What do timeless concepts that change very little have?

That's an intriguing question, Neil. I think you've hit on something important there, but it's hard to define. I'd say that in some way both Pat's and Mike Linnig's have turned themselves into "traditions," the kind of experience that people remember fondly (and so do our parents) and that we really would not want to see change in any significant way.

But to earn that status, you have to be so long-lived that you've built a generation of memories, so it's kind of circular: What do you have to do in the first place to be able to last that long? Consistency and being great at what you do, I guess.

I have noticed two restaurants fade for relocating to the east side… Chicos was doing well in the SW end of town but decided to move to the richer side of town. They lost their customer base and had to start a new one in a higher rent district then failed. Kim’s moved from E. Market to the higher rent district on Frankfort Ave. They also lost costumers and much money to rent then eventually moved back losing their new customers from Frankfort Ave.

OK, what should a restaurant do? Expand or relocate? I know over expanding thins out the oversight but can add to the revenue. Relocating also has its issues.