The Brewery.....In a word.....W O W

For the record, I would gladly pay $20 for a world class burger. Comparing raw grocery store food costs to a finished product in these fine establishments is short sighted at best. I'm partial to the holy Grale burger myself but I haven't tried every place on that list.

I can buy a shot of vodka at a liquor store for less than 50 cents. That doesn't compare to a vodka drink consumed at a Vegas nightclub that costs 50 times that amount.

Umm ... Ryan runs a restaurant, Mark. Soon to be two.

I realize that but the price sure he quoted from was based on the consumer price index. Not the same thing by a long shot.

I don't comment often and maybe not enough to participate in this post but I couldn't agree with Ryan enough but he left out a lot and was being very kind. Does anyone actually take into account the actual quality not your personal preference. Fresh local ground beef isn't cheap and A. Fresh(not frozen) B. Can actually be cooked at correct temp not murdered on a grill; C: not many restaurants actually grind their beef daily this only happens when you really care about your product and want to give guests the best. Secondly yes Ryan explained food cost but break it down to cooking a burger at home for those who can't grasp it ... grill cost money to buy, charcoal or propane cost, lighter fluid if charcoal cost, lighter cost, now let's get to food...beef cost, lettuce cost, Cheese cost, bun cost, ketchup cost, mustard cost, mayo cost, if your doing it right bacon cost. Now think about it we aren't evern talking about sides so if your frying ,oil cost if not fried baked oven=electricity bill going up or how much time it takes you to shop then prepare all this then clean all your dishes, not so cheap how much is your time worth I can tell you this a fresh burger with all the fixings for $10-20 is right on par because I assure you I don't have time for all that and if you buy any decent product at home you are looking at $20-$35 yes you may yield more but it goes to waste most of the time at my house... Now let's think restaurants believe it or not cost a lot of money to have a restaurant running and they are open to support someone's livelihood and family not just for the simple joy to cook for others yes chefs/owners/FOH hace a passion for others enjoyment of their product but they also have to make money. I wish everyone would realize this isn't a hobby or a country club where people pay memberships, I can people were paying 10k-30k a month just to come to a restaurant the price of food would go down. It isn't as simple as paying for ingredients and putting them on a dish.

[Robin Garr]

It isn't as simple as paying for ingredients and putting them on a dish.

This.

I don't care what anyone charges for a slab of ground up cow. I NEVER* order a burger when dining out. I can make one at home that tops at least 95% of restaurants using fresh local beef, home baked rolls, with garden fresh lettuce and tomatoes (seasonal) at a very reasonable cost.

*Well, I did have one maybe 5 or 6 years ago.

I guess the disconnect is partly in my mind. I generally don't consider burgers in the category of fine-dining food. No matter how fancy the cuts you grind and the buns and toppings you use, in my head burgers max out somewhere in the middle of the culinary-experience scale.

Which is all to say, if I'm going to a restaurant that serves a $16 burger, no matter how amazing that burger may be, I generally assume there are other things on the menu that will be better - tastier, more unique and creative, and, pace Bill, farther from something I can create at home. I'm not saying I'll never try the burger at Proof or Harvest, but they wouldn't be my first or fifth choice.

But their burgers come with fries! End of discussion.

But their burgers come with fries! End of discussion.

8 dollar burgers come with fries....16 dollar burgers come with Pomme Frites. The extra 8 bucks and the french name supposedly makes the whole meal taste better.

Fresh local ground beef isn't cheap

$2.84 a pound for grass fed "natural" beef (as opposed to un-natural) at Lucky's last week...and no matter where you get yours, I'm betting you don't pay much more than that to whoever your supplier is.

Secondly yes Ryan explained food cost but break it down to cooking a burger at home for those who can't grasp it ... grill cost money to buy, charcoal or propane cost, lighter fluid if charcoal cost, lighter cost,

Using that brand of logic, it's cheaper to eat -every- meal in a restaurant...right down to opening a can of spaghetti O's and slapping them on the stove top. I mean God forbid I need an -oven- in my house (or neglected to factor in the cost of the oven and knives and forks and plates, etc in the bottom line of my grocery budget). Hell, let's go out to eat every night...it's cheaper.

now let's get to food...beef cost, lettuce cost, Cheese cost, bun cost, ketchup cost, mustard cost, mayo cost, if your doing it right bacon cost.

Ya'll can use fancy/creative math to break down the cost all you want. HERE is the bottom line...Using -retail- cost (which I guarantee you ain't paying) when compared to the servings listed on the package (and/or common sense equivalents when not listed) the RETAIL cost (sans labor/overhead) of a "quality burger" served on a "quality" bun breaks down like this; Burger .75, Bun .50, Bacon .27, Lettuce .05, Mayo .09, Mustard .02, Ketchup .06, Onion .02...which comes to a buck seventy five on my calculator (least it did the last time). Even substituting -premium- ingredients, there is simply NO way to justify 16 or 17 smackers for a burger...I don't care what the cows name was that went into making it or what the "Chef's" name was who slapped it on the flat top (my guess would be Manuel, or Jose' who very likely make minimum wage but that's food for another thread.

I can tell you this a fresh burger with all the fixings for $10-20 is right on par because I assure you I don't have time for all that and if you buy any decent product at home you are looking at $20-$35 yes you may yield more but it goes to waste most of the time at my house...

Say whhhhhhhhat ?? Am I reading this right ? $15-20 is "on par" (which I assume means a fair and honest price) for a restaurant burger...and that if I cooked using the same "decent" product/s at home it's gonna run me $20-$35 ??? Dude, if that's what you're saying we need to get you tested. (Oh wait, I forgot we're supposed to include the price of a grill and charcoal and beer into the comparison).

Now let's think restaurants believe it or not cost a lot of money to have a restaurant running and they are open to support someone's livelihood and family not just for the simple joy to cook for others

Bingo, now there is something we can all agree on.

Ryan, you used consumer prices during your calculations and restaurants don't pay consumer prices for the foods they buy. The prices they pay are considerably lower by 25% or more. By doing this it moves the pricing model very much in line with what Jeff found to be the price of burgers at most of the local restaurants.

This is one of the most misunderstood myths of the whole foodservice industry. The difference between retail and wholesale prices isn't as simple as 25% lower, because that isn't remotely close.
As a matter of fact, if a good grocery shopper that read the sale ads every week went to several stores and bought most of the loss leader items, you would do much better than the average restaurant.
A great place for people to get over what they perceive to be this "huge" wholesale discount, would be to pay a visit to a local GFS Marketplace. Particularly when it comes to meat pricing, The prices anyone pays that walks in off the street are pretty much exactly the same that any GFS account holder would pay. Sure there is a discount on volume pricing for items; but name me any other industry that doesn't follow the same practice?

People also tend to forget that included in the price of your meal are many other sundry items not seen on your plate. For example the toilet paper in the bathrooms, chemicals for the dish machine, the many licenses and permit fees, liability insurance, workers compensation insurance, utility bills that are much much higher than a residence, small wares, condiments like those .10 a piece blue or yellow sweeteners you just shoved in your purse, linens, flowers in finer places and on and on. And lets not forget the employees wages and possibly some benefits which on average make up a 1/3 of the price of your meal.......Somewhere in there there has to be room for a profit, right?

Menu pricing is a delicate balancing act, but if the market is willing to bear a specialty burger for $16-17, then so be it. Somebody out there is seeing the value in it or they wouldn't be eating there.

Well Said, Dan. How about my sandwich prep board that went out last week, another 2 grand there. Or the broken grease trap last month, another grand there. Or the air going out last summer for three days. You can not predict, and even negating these random acts of the restaurant gods, a good 5 to 8 Percent Profit is what most place limp along at. We have found the perfect mix of seasoned burger at Shady Lane and though I admire the local movement, my customers do not so much, and deem us one of the best in town. I mean, what has burger risen in the last year, Dan. A dollar a pound? And yes, you are right about loss leader and sharp look-outs at the major chains to beat out the mega food service guys. I get a rebate from GFS which is sweet, but otherwise, some clever shopping often beats that price. But back to the Burgers, I order them out because it is amazing when a restaurant gets one just right. I think it is one of most difficult dishes to execute properly, temp, holding time, garnish, bread, etc. is an art. I can think of a dozen place that cannot execute this, but can fusion, or pork belly, and foam themselves all night long. I look forward to the Brewerys version. Of course when local tomatoes or in season, just a tomato sandwich with a little Extra heavy mayo, a tiny bit of salt and pepper, will do wonders for any Burger. Long live the Burger! And long live the right amount of fat in said burger. Fat. Now good for you in the eyes of nutritionists everywhere. DUH!

Happily paid $20 for two grass-fed, actually local, hand-ground burgers at Grind Burger Kitchen truck at the Douglass Loop market just now.

No regrets at all. House-made and branded smoked ketchup, house-made pickles, local bakery buns. Totally worth it. John's had habanero jelly on it.

I feel sorry for any girl who isn't me today.

The truth is:

I'm going to charge what you're willing to pay.

I can make a burger that will blow your mind- but it will take me some time. I can do a similar thing but not so cool on the cheap.

Are we going $6? Or are we going $10?

I will admit, my original thought when I read $20 for burger and fries was "OMG! It's a friggin burger!" BUT I do agree with subsequent posters in that you get what you pay for. (Usually.) like some foodies here I tend to have a wee bit lower regard for offerings I can cook at home. ( hey, if I can cook it how difficult can it be?) for these dishes I just don't want to pay as much. It's all just my own crazy perception. Still, good ingredients cost. And, when it comes to beef and other animal proteins I think we are going to see those prices steadily going up due to feed costs and droughts that never seem to go away. Soon we will be seeing $25-30 burgers and either we will eat pay it or eat burgers at home or eliminate burgers altogether. (Shrugs) How bad do you want a really good burger in a really nice atmosphere?