Home restaurants

I think with health inspections real "private" solutions look like independent guilds and restaurant associations volunteering to be inspected. Hypothetically groups of restauranteurs would police themselves. If you saw "Louisville Originals" on the door of your restaurant and you would know that this group does it's own private inspections that are up to a standard set by the group and you dine with confidence. It would be mandatory to join the group and the criterion would be defined by the group and done on their budget.

This is just a sketch of how a voluntary stateless system could work, I haven't put a ton of thought into it, but I think the premise is sound.

I definitely see what you are talking about but I could see it easily developing into a "Class" system is different levels of restaurants belonging to different groups in each group having different levels of inspection and different standards. You mentioned that it would be mandatory to join the group but who would enforce this mandatory joining?

I don't think it would have to be mandatory at all. Customer preference an liability would enforce the appropriate level of training/inspection.

Also, a class system is what you want. That way a "home restaurant" serving 4 people a week isn't forced to have the same training/inspection regime as a McDonalds.

Uber, Lyft, AirBnB, and home restaurants are all examples of how one-size fits all government regulations stifle an innovative economy, usually by enforcing the preferences of incumbent, political connected providers. Many times we as the consuming republic don't even now what nascent industries have been killed in the crib.

You mentioned that it would be mandatory to join the group but who would enforce this mandatory joining?

Good question. I think it is mandatory only to join that group. You don't want to follow my guilds rules, we don't let you in. You want to start your own guild have at, but you won't have the credibility of my guild blah blah blah. I mean it is the "mandatory" we talk about when we talk about joining any other voluntary group. You want to play in my band Vladimir Poopin, you have to wear our baby blue tuxedos and have a real respect for chamber music like we do. No one is going to threaten fines and jail time if you don't want to be a part of the Poopin family.

And yes you are absolutely right. Everyone will have their own level of inspection and that could be based on class. But isn't that true today with every restaurant still having it's own level of cleanliness and approach to sanitation between inspections? You can't tell me that there aren't restaurants operating today that you wouldn't go to based on your experience with their level of sanitation...

And I agree Steve freemarket pressure is the ultimate decider in all of these models even the current state mandated health inspection model. I pick and choose where I want to eat not based on the letter grade on the door. I go based on my sense of their sanitation and my desire to eat their fare. I spend a lot of time at flea markets, taqueirias, Asian groceries, dicey greasy spoons, food trucks, and fast food joints that many consider unclean or low class and I love them like I love white table cloth establishments.

The main purpose of a government bureaucrat will always evolve toward increasing the power and scope of the bureaucracy. Always.

Don't forget the inspector's motto "Ubi est meam?".

The funny thing is that I agree with much of what you say, but not with extending it to the far libertarian end of the spectrum. Inspection and regulation scaled to the size of the business, yes. Understanding that the consumer takes some risk, sure. But abandoning all inspection because individuals have the ability to make changes? That's Randian, and it fails the naivete test.

Ir works for Underwriters Lab and for Kosher regulation. To just pick two.

Why should food inspection be any different than Kosher inspection?

This is my problem with organic labels. Instead of allowing it to be done in a similar way to Kosher labels, the government got involved with defining the term. And then lobbyists got exceptions made.

I think with health inspections real "private" solutions look like independent guilds and restaurant associations volunteering to be inspected. Hypothetically groups of restauranteurs would police themselves. If you saw "Louisville Originals" on the door of your restaurant and you would know that this group does it's own private inspections that are up to a standard set by the group and you dine with confidence. It would be mandatory to join the group and the criterion would be defined by the group and done on their budget.

This is just a sketch of how a voluntary stateless system could work, I haven't put a ton of thought into it, but I think the premise is sound.

I definitely see what you are talking about but I could see it easily developing into a "Class" system is different levels of restaurants belonging to different groups in each group having different levels of inspection and different standards. You mentioned that it would be mandatory to join the group but who would enforce this mandatory joining?

Just like Kosher. There are different levels of Kosher organizations, some much stricter than others. Consumers who care about buying Kosher know the different ones and have the ones they use and the ones they dont.

Uber, Lyft, AirBnB, and home restaurants are all examples of how one-size fits all government regulations stifle an innovative economy, usually by enforcing the preferences of incumbent, political connected providers. Many times we as the consuming republic don't even now what nascent industries have been killed in the crib.

Another good example is FAA drone regulation. They are saying that regulating drones is vitally important and is going to take at least until late 2021 and maybe not until 2024.

That is killing businesses in the crib today.

That's why fun stuff like this should remain off the radar. I know of at least one local well respected restauranteur who got her feet wet doing paid dinners like this out of her home. I'm inclined to wonder what the legalities are if someone got ill from a meal. But personally if I were going for an experience I wouldn't think twice about attending. We got to hit a Mommasans house dinner years ago in San Francisco. It was so memorable and warm. And packed! But I've also eaten Vietnamese food prepared by a little old wizened man in a garage. So maybe I'm just trusting.
I think that home hosted dinners should not be regulated by the health dept. I guess you could always have your guests sign a waiver like hospitals and ballparks do!

It works for Underwriters Lab and for Kosher regulation. To just pick two.
Why should food inspection be any different than Kosher inspection?.

Those are both certainly interesting comparisons. Legally, electrical suppliers can sell anything they want to without having the UL certification but most suppliers still seek it. It seems like recently though I've been seeing fewer things with the UL certification attached. Actually the NEC codes are also an interesting discussion. The codes themselves are written by a private organization with input mostly from members of the electrical industry. They only become a requirement when the NEC codes are adopted by state and local governments. Actually building codes are the same way because they are mostly developed by the IBC.

Kosher in reality is a secondary inspection to anything that the USDA does. Food that is certified kosher still has to meet any and all USDA requirements.

This is my problem with organic labels. Instead of allowing it to be done in a similar way to Kosher labels, the government got involved with defining the term. And then lobbyists got exceptions made.

You certainly hit the nail on the head about organics! Why should they be treated any different by government inspections than any other food product? Your Kosher comparison certainly works well here.

I think that home hosted dinners should not be regulated by the health dept. I guess you could always have your guests sign a waiver like hospitals and ballparks do!

I agree with you that they shouldn't be regulated but in reality signing a waiver doesn't mean a whole lot. Many different organizations have been sued even after they have a signed waiver of liability.

Those are both certainly interesting comparisons. Legally, electrical suppliers can sell anything they want to without having the UL certification but most suppliers still seek it.

Exactly, that is the point.

It seems like recently though I've been seeing fewer things with the UL certification attached.

Ive noticed that too. I dont know if its still true, but as of a few years ago, the UL had never certified a turkey fryer. Because they are just fundamentally unsafe.

Kosher in reality is a secondary inspection to anything that the USDA does. Food that is certified kosher still has to meet any and all USDA requirements.

Exactly. But the point is, the primary inspection could be done the same way. There could be a private org (or orgs) that certify basic food safety and give a seal of approval instead of the USDA doing it. My point about organic was that it went down the government labeling path instead of the kosher path, which screwed it up. You cant tell if its "real" organic or "fake" organic because there is only one standard. Kosher has many different standards and the consumer can decide themselves which are real and which are fake.

My point about organic was that it went down the government labeling path instead of the kosher path, which screwed it up. You cant tell if its "real" organic or "fake" organic because there is only one standard. Kosher has many different standards and the consumer can decide themselves which are real and which are fake.

Very true, you would at least think if we had government standards they would be cut and dry and either something was organic or wasn't organic but as you said you really can't tell what is and isn't because of all the fakes that are in the marketplace! There is absolutely no need for government intervention in the organic field because like the Kosher determination whether it is or isn't it doesn't matter as far as your health goes, it's more of a philosophical determination why you want to eat something that's Kosher or Organic.