Yet another tipping question

It seems most of us have a "standard tip" (15%, 20%, 22.5%) that we start with and then adjust upwards or downwards depending upon some perceived level of service.

What factors would cause you to adjust upwards from your norm?

And, somewhat related, what common service flaws would motivate you to move the tip down?

Finally, does your tipping behavior leans towards the objective or the subjective?

Obviously, the flaws that affect how much we tip are based on the server's performance, not the food. Such things as not refilling water or tea glasses is certainly one of them as are such things as not clearing empty plates. Also most times we take into consideration such things as trying to rush the meal by bringing the next course will we haven't yet finished what we are eating. We also take into account the server's general attitude in many cases.

Along the same lines regarding tipping I like to know why the base tip has crept upward from 15% to 18% to 20%? I've heard the argument that the waiters need to be paid more so the tips need to go up but that really doesn't hold much water because the price of the meals has also increased so even tipping the same percentage would give them more money! I've yet to hear a good explanation why the reference point for a good tip has increased.

There honestly isn't much that motivates me to adjust up from what I kind of think is an already generous standard 20%. I have gone up rarely for outstanding service that's exceptionally smooth, thoughtful, courteous, anticipates our requests, and goes out of its way to make sure we have a uniquely wonderful experience. It's a totally subjective thing.

Things that motivate me adjust down are rudeness, inattentiveness - not refilling glasses, never checking in with us. etc - and lack of attention or concern when things go wrong. If the kitchen is in the weeds or loses our order and we have to wait an hour to get food, I don't take it out on the server, but I will if the server isn't paying enough attention to realize the problem, never checks in with us while it's going on, and makes no effort to apologize or do what they can to help the situation. Depending on how bad the experience is, I'll go down to 15% or even 10%. I don't think I've ever left zero.

I know this makes me sound fickle, but I have to say there's such a thing as being TOO attentive, though, as well. We were eating at Coal's a couple weeks ago and in a 45-minute dinner I'm certain we were interrupted at least eight times by our server asking if we were doing all right, all while we were clearly engaged in deep conversation. Checking in every 15 or 20 minutes is wonderful; every five minutes is not. I didn't adjust the tip down much for that, though - I think I might have gone down to 18%.

[Robin Garr]

What factors would cause you to adjust upwards from your norm?

The most obvious for me is simple proportionality. At a cheap-eats spot where my lunch was under $10, I won't think twice about tossing in a $5 for a job well done, but it's a subjective call, not a decision, "Let's go for the 50 percenter."

I agree with everything already posted and will add that smarminess is no substitute for good service. I've had male food servers want to hug me (excuse me but do I know you?) or compliment me on my hair, clothing, etc then disappear when I need my check, or a clean napkin. Do not call me 'darling' and think that charms me into a higher tip when your service has been poor.

The common things, but my biggest ding is any kind of normal delay (empty plates, check, refills, etc.) exacerbated by seeing them standing around talking with other servers or the bartender.

I already gave my list of criteria in the original tipping thread. As for why 20%, I'm lazy with math. It's easier to calculate 20% in my head vs pulling out a calculator to add up 18% or 15%. Math was never my strong subject.

Of course now that some places are including a handy-dandy list of tipping amounts based on purchase on the receipt, it makes it easier. I think I've seen mostly 15/20/25 on those that use that feature.

Along the same lines regarding tipping I like to know why the base tip has crept upward from 15% to 18% to 20%? I've heard the argument that the waiters need to be paid more so the tips need to go up but that really doesn't hold much water because the price of the meals has also increased so even tipping the same percentage would give them more money! I've yet to hear a good explanation why the reference point for a good tip has increased.

Mark, if I had to guess I'd say it's because "server average minimum wage" has been kept artificially low at $2.13 an hour for over twenty years. Yes, the price of meals has gone up along with the cost of living, but the "base standard" tip needs to float up to help fill the income tax on tips vs hourly wage gap until congress or somebody sees their way clear to raise server minimum wage each time everyone else's minimum wage gets raised. Otherwise servers would end up owing their employer tax money on payday instead of the "close to zero" check they normally receive.

I know that was as clear as mud, but I think most of you can understand what I'm saying, can't you?

I know that was as clear as mud, but I think most of you can understand what I'm saying, can't you?

Kind of, sort of, maybe? I know where you're coming from and I understand the argument but don't really agree with it. Is it because in the past servers were able to avoid paying taxes on tips and now the federal government is policing that better? Other than that the increased price of dinners with the same tip percentage should cover the rate of inflation plus a little in most cases. I realize it minimum wage has risen but that really shouldn't have anything to do with this. If they were making $12/hour 10 years ago with an average dinner price of $30 they should not be making $20/hour with the average dinner price increased to $50 (hypothetical numbers).

I already gave my list of criteria in the original tipping thread. As for why 20%, I'm lazy with math. It's easier to calculate 20% in my head vs pulling out a calculator to add up 18% or 15%. Math was never my strong subject.

Of course now that some places are including a handy-dandy list of tipping amounts based on purchase on the receipt, it makes it easier. I think I've seen mostly 15/20/25 on those that use that feature.

Multiply the sales tax by 3

Multiply the sales tax by 3

Not north of the river. Of course, up here Pi =3

I already gave my list of criteria in the original tipping thread. As for why 20%, I'm lazy with math. It's easier to calculate 20% in my head vs pulling out a calculator to add up 18% or 15%. Math was never my strong subject.

Of course now that some places are including a handy-dandy list of tipping amounts based on purchase on the receipt, it makes it easier. I think I've seen mostly 15/20/25 on those that use that feature.

Multiply the sales tax by 3

That Works in some places but because sales tax varies from state to state (and possibly from city to city if Mayor Fischer gets his way) it wouldn't always produce the results you wanted.

I already gave my list of criteria in the original tipping thread. As for why 20%, I'm lazy with math. It's easier to calculate 20% in my head vs pulling out a calculator to add up 18% or 15%. Math was never my strong subject.

Of course now that some places are including a handy-dandy list of tipping amounts based on purchase on the receipt, it makes it easier. I think I've seen mostly 15/20/25 on those that use that feature.

Multiply the sales tax by 3

That Works in some places but because sales tax varies from state to state (and possibly from city to city if Mayor Fischer gets his way) it wouldn't always produce the results you wanted.

I was assuming 6% Kentucky sales tax.

Mark, if I had to guess I'd say it's because "server average minimum wage" has been kept artificially low at $2.13 an hour for over twenty years. Yes, the price of meals has gone up along with the cost of living, but the "base standard" tip needs to float up to help fill the income tax on tips vs hourly wage gap until congress or somebody sees their way clear to raise server minimum wage each time everyone else's minimum wage gets raised. Otherwise servers would end up owing their employer tax money on payday instead of the "close to zero" check they normally receive.

I know that was as clear as mud, but I think most of you can understand what I'm saying, can't you?

Clear as mud ? Nah, that's a pretty clear explanation...well done.

And, somewhat related, what common service flaws would motivate you to move the tip down?

I won't call this "a common service flaw" (and for that matter only marginally service related) but twice in the past year I have (after being seated) gotten up and completely removed myself from a servers section based solely on the appearance of the server. While I will acknowledge an individuals freedom of expression, I too have the freedom to express myself. If you're a server and you show up at my table looking like some Amazon Delta pigmy/tribesman don't get your panties in a wad when I get up and move to another section. Simply put I don't find a combination of "dual sleeve" tatts, "life saver" earrings and eyebrow/tongue studs even remotely conducive to my dining experience.