A world without tipping

I thought Byters might, in light of recent Louisville restaurant labor issues, enjoy this read:
from Metafilter-
"Jay Porter had two restaurants: one used the normal restaurant business model and one banned tipping servers, which gained national notoriety for a practice that is all but unheard of in the US. Now that the gratuity-free restaurant, The Linkery, is closed, he is writing about the ultimate experience and the reasons for doing it."

http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observa ... -overview/

[Robin Garr]

Fascinating article. Thanks, Paul. I want to click through and read the NY Times article about the Linkery that he mentioned ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magaz ... d=all&_r=0 ) but no time now ...

Very interesting. I found of interest point #3 . Something I never considered before.

http://insiderlouisville.com/news/2013/ ... ay-for-it/

For anyone who doesn't want to do all the reading...

1) Guy with no restaurant experience opens restaurant in San Diego.
2) Within two years he socializes the servers' tip distribution.
3) Restaurant closes less than four years later.
4) Owner claims successful business model.

<insert fart noise here>

For anyone who doesn't want to do all the reading...

1) Guy with no restaurant experience opens restaurant in San Diego.
2) Within two years he socializes the servers' tip distribution.
3) Restaurant closes less than four years later.
4) Owner claims successful business model.

<insert fart noise here>

Based on what little I know about the restaurant business, isnt a newbie lasting 6 years a success?

Also, your #2 is incorrect, the state didnt control the means of production. It was a switch to a commission system from a tip system. Plenty of occupations are commission based, I dont see the problem, or why it would provide more or less incentive than a tip system.

I agree with Rob. Also, after reading all the material, no where did I find that the restaurant failed. It did move and later closed but no indication that it had "failed". Perhaps the owner had had enough of the restaurant biz or since it was his first involvement, perhaps it didn't offer the gratification that he thought it would. Perhaps he underestimated the time investment it takes to run a restaurant. Many reasons to leave any line of work other than financial failure.

I agree with Rob. Also, after reading all the material, no where did I find that the restaurant failed. It did move and later closed but no indication that it had "failed". Perhaps the owner had had enough of the restaurant biz or since it was his first involvement, perhaps it didn't offer the gratification that he thought it would. Perhaps he underestimated the time investment it takes to run a restaurant. Many reasons to leave any line of work other than financial failure.

I never said it failed, I said it closed. Since the whole article revolves around the idea that a balanced distribution of a server's tips to other positions in the restaurant leads to a happier staff and a happier clientele, so much so that it deserves a write up in the Times, I guess I just expect that said restaurant should not only still be open but also doing gangbuster business. Give me a ten or twenty year track record of success before you start calling your "innovative" idea a winner.

I dont see the problem, or why it would provide more or less incentive than a tip system.

You don't see why an individual would rather keep what they earn rather than have it redistributed to other employees?

I hear what you are saying Gary Z but I think you have to hold restaurants to a different standard. For instance you mention a 10-20 year run before a restaurant is a success. By that standard how many restaurants are currently alive in Louisville and successful?

Personally I think most, if not all businesses need to review their business practices every few years if only to keep abreast of an ever changing market, changing public wants and needs and changing costs and procedures. What was equitable 10 or 15 years ago may not work as well now.

As far as what the servers wanted, The article did say the servers liked the system, that out of his entire staff, when the switchover was made only one left and the remaining crew felt like they actually enjoyed their job more and were able to take pride in their work more so than before. I think in a city the size of San Diego there would be plenty of other restaurants to work in should the server decide they wanted a typical tip system yet they stayed. And your mention to Rob about servers not wanting to have their tips redistributed to others, well, what's tip pooling if not that? I'm just saying I thought the route that particular restaurant went was fairly well thought out and did a fine job of taking into consideration ALL the good and bad points of tipping as well as some very ugly, psychological aspects of tipping that the industry can do without.

(And in case you are wondering, I worked for over 14 years in restaurants doing every job from disher, salad gal, cocktail waitress, busser, bartender, restaurant manager and catering manager. I'm not saying every restaurant should be totally tip free but I think most would say a revamping of the system is in order. )

I dont see the problem, or why it would provide more or less incentive than a tip system.

You don't see why an individual would rather keep what they earn rather than have it redistributed to other employees?

Under a commission system, they got exactly what they earned, as did the busboys and the back of house.

Its right there in the "contract" they agreed to. Each group gets X Y or Z percent of the service charges.

Why are you assuming "tips" are only earned by the waitstaff?

I dont see the problem, or why it would provide more or less incentive than a tip system.

You don't see why an individual would rather keep what they earn rather than have it redistributed to other employees?

Its right there in the "contract" they agreed to. Each group gets X Y or Z percent of the service charges.

Why are you assuming "tips" are only earned by the waitstaff?

From a serving perspective, that contract is for suckers. It's probably an awesome deal if you're anyone but a server. In most cases it would probably be more profitable to just go work some place else.

As far as who is earning those tips... I would say it's those that have direct contact with the guest. Is the dishwasher upselling a table from an $80 bottle of wine to a $200 bottle of wine? Is the pantry cook suggesting lobster tail or crab leg add ons. Is the sous chef putting up with drunk, rude or entitled people?

People consider serving an unskilled position but there are other positions within a restaurant that are even moreso. A server can actually increase a restaurant's sales whereas as a dishwasher or hostess could only help maintain them. And honestly a server's motivation to sell would drop dramatically if they saw very little return on their efforts.

Is the issue really that the disparity between what servers make and what hourly positions make is so great that servers should basically help pay the hourlies' wages, or should the restaurant pay those hourlies more per hour in the first place? I know restaurants' profit margins are thin, but do you honestly think it's right to take tipped income away from an employee you're only paying $2.13 an hour to in the first place?

Based upon actual work done in the restaurant, maybe the management staff should be payed less so the kitchen staff could be paid more. Yeah... that's never going to happen.

The real issue is greed. The restaurants are going to offer the lowest hourly wage they can possibly get away with and look for any and all ways to get their tipped employees to make up the difference. That's the current situation. No tipped employee wants to see it get even worse.

I hear what you are saying Gary Z but I think you have to hold restaurants to a different standard. For instance you mention a 10-20 year run before a restaurant is a success. By that standard how many restaurants are currently alive in Louisville and successful?

Personally I think most, if not all businesses need to review their business practices every few years if only to keep abreast of an ever changing market, changing public wants and needs and changing costs and procedures. What was equitable 10 or 15 years ago may not work as well now.

As far as what the servers wanted, The article did say the servers liked the system, that out of his entire staff, when the switchover was made only one left and the remaining crew felt like they actually enjoyed their job more and were able to take pride in their work more so than before. I think in a city the size of San Diego there would be plenty of other restaurants to work in should the server decide they wanted a typical tip system yet they stayed.

And your mention to Rob about servers not wanting to have their tips redistributed to others, well, what's tip pooling if not that?

Seeing as how the article came from the perspective of the owner, I'm going to take with a grain of salt the statement that the employees enjoyed their jobs more and took more pride in it. At least not the servers. Why would they? Making less money = happier at work? In what universe? I can see that the animosity between FOH and BOH might decrease but is that worth the cut in pay? You work a job to make the maximum amount of money you can.

As far as tip pooling is concerned, I have already expressed my opinions on that extensively on this site.

From a serving perspective, that contract is for suckers. It's probably an awesome deal if you're anyone but a server. In most cases it would probably be more profitable to just go work some place else.

As far as who is earning those tips... I would say it's those that have direct contact with the guest. Is the dishwasher upselling a table from an $80 bottle of wine to a $200 bottle of wine? Is the pantry cook suggesting lobster tail or crab leg add ons. Is the sous chef putting up with drunk, rude or entitled people?

People consider serving an unskilled position but there are other positions within a restaurant that are even moreso. A server can actually increase a restaurant's sales whereas as a dishwasher or hostess could only help maintain them. And honestly a server's motivation to sell would drop dramatically if they saw very little return on their efforts.

Is the issue really that the disparity between what servers make and what hourly positions make is so great that servers should basically help pay the hourlies' wages, or should the restaurant pay those hourlies more per hour in the first place? I know restaurants' profit margins are thin, but do you honestly think it's right to take tipped income away from an employee you're only paying $2.13 an hour to in the first place?

Based upon actual work done in the restaurant, maybe the management staff should be payed less so the kitchen staff could be paid more. Yeah... that's never going to happen.

The real issue is greed. The restaurants are going to offer the lowest hourly wage they can possibly get away with and look for any and all ways to get their tipped employees to make up the difference. That's the current situation. No tipped employee wants to see it get even worse.

I couldnt have said it better. This goes back to the whole tip pooling and why there was so much animus with Lynn's Cafe.

Pay your employees a fair salary and stop expecting tips from the servers to fill in their compensation.

Busboy is about the ONLY position that I think could be tipped out by servers.

Edited to add:
http://thelinkery.com/blog/farewell-for ... e-linkery/
Notes on why they are closing.
Seems they were open 8 years and arent closing. They sold out to do something else.

From a serving perspective, that contract is for suckers. It's probably an awesome deal if you're anyone but a server. In most cases it would probably be more profitable to just go work some place else.

Then go work someplace else. But apparently somebody liked the deal as they had servers.

And honestly a server's motivation to sell would drop dramatically if they saw very little return on their efforts.

How is a commission less motivation than a tip? In fact, I would think it is more, as you know that an upsell will get you more money. Guaranteed.

Is the issue really that the disparity between what servers make and what hourly positions make is so great that servers should basically help pay the hourlies' wages, or should the restaurant pay those hourlies more per hour in the first place? I know restaurants' profit margins are thin, but do you honestly think it's right to take tipped income away from an employee you're only paying $2.13 an hour to in the first place?

Ive said in the past I would favor eliminating tipping AND service charges and just charge more for the items and pay the staff their fair wages. It really isnt the consumers job to pay the freakin servers.