Specialty Cocktails

My husband and I went out to eat on Saturday night. They had a great specialty cocktail list and I ordered a drink and asked to sub a different bourbon. Specifically Bulleit for (I think) Blanton's. The server immediately told me that would not be possible. I explained that an upcharge would be no problem and that since we are a family in the alcohol biz we support certain brands that my husband sells. No dice. The server again explained that the bartender would not alter the cocktails on the list. To his credit, the server pointed out a different cocktail on the list that used Bulleit but it just wasn't my thing so I settled for something else.

I ask for specific call brands all the time when we go out and it has never been a problem. I worked service industry for years and have had some good laughs about the ridiculous substitutions people request. This got me thinking...

With all of the time and thought put into the beverage programs nowadays have I been insulting the bartender and didn't realize it? Or is this guy just way uptight about his cocktails?

I kind of understand that a bartender would want a specific flavor profile for a specialty drink, but I don't understand an unwillingness to substitute according to the customer's request.

I have to say, in a specialty cocktail, I understand it. A different bourbon changes the flavor profile, but perhaps the server could have asked the bartender to make something similar with your preferred brand if the other cocktail on the menu didn't strike you? So, having said that I understand, I would be taken aback at first as well.

I'm speculating here, but their drinks could have very fragile flavor balances and they could be designed to work with very defined spirits.

For instance, I have a drink that requires Woodford, Black Peppercorn and B & B. Substitute Bookers and that thing becomes almost undrinkable.

Or it could be hubris...

One could argue that mixing anything with a bourbon changes that bourbons profile. Bartenders grimace when anyone asks for a call bourbon and coke. AND YET, that's what the customer likes so pour it already. Refusing to pour a mixed cocktail with a different brand bourbon is just another form of culinary "dick swinging" ( please excuse the vulgarity.) bartenders need to focus on some other way to feel superior to the very folk that keeps them working.
This "My palate is superior to your palate" BS is trite and boring.
Remember, it's a food SERVICE industry, not university or church.

I'm with Carla. Pour the drink and get over yourself. I realize that some drinks have a delicate flavor balance. In that case pour the drink with a disclaimer that the bartender is not responsible for the taste of the cocktail.

One could argue that mixing anything with a bourbon changes that bourbons profile. Bartenders grimace when anyone asks for a call bourbon and coke. AND YET, that's what the customer likes so pour it already. Refusing to pour a mixed cocktail with a different brand bourbon is just another form of culinary "dick swinging" ( please excuse the vulgarity.) bartenders need to focus on some other way to feel superior to the very folk that keeps them working.
This "My palate is superior to your palate" BS is trite and boring.
Remember, it's a food SERVICE industry, not university or church.

Yes, mixing anything with Bourbon obviously changes the flavor of the drink, which is why the bartender selected that specific bourbon to create the cocktail with, because it has the characteristics they are looking for in their cocktail.

There are obviously restaurants that cater to a certain clientele that wants what they want and how they want it. And then there are other restaurants and bars that are trying to improve their guests experience by introducing them to things that they have paired together for a reason. If you choose to attend the latter type of restaurant then you should trust the bartenders and chefs.

If you're not interested in the cocktails/food at the latter then you are more than welcome to order something else or go to the former type of restaurant.

One could argue that mixing anything with a bourbon changes that bourbons profile. Bartenders grimace when anyone asks for a call bourbon and coke. AND YET, that's what the customer likes so pour it already. Refusing to pour a mixed cocktail with a different brand bourbon is just another form of culinary "dick swinging" ( please excuse the vulgarity.) bartenders need to focus on some other way to feel superior to the very folk that keeps them working.
This "My palate is superior to your palate" BS is trite and boring.
Remember, it's a food SERVICE industry, not university or church.

Yes, mixing anything with Bourbon obviously changes the flavor of the drink, which is why the bartender selected that specific bourbon to create the cocktail with, because it has the characteristics they are looking for in their cocktail.

There are obviously restaurants that cater to a certain clientele that wants what they want and how they want it. And then there are other restaurants and bars that are trying to improve their guests experience by introducing them to things that they have paired together for a reason. If you choose to attend the latter type of restaurant then you should trust the bartenders and chefs.

If you're not interested in the cocktails/food at the latter then you are more than welcome to order something else or go to the former type of restaurant.

So, if I were to go into Feast BBQ and your menu shows ( for example) a pulled pork sandwich on a kaiser roll . I don't like kaiser rolls. But I do love rye bread. Would I be able to get my pulled pork on rye bread or will I be told I cannot fully appreciate the experience of your BBQ sandwich unless I eat it on a kaiser roll? Please tell me because there are a great many other great BBQ places to experience.

The point is, not everybody goes out for an experience or to gain some sort of culinary education. . Some people go out because they've had a tiring day and they simply don't want to cook. I appreciate that a chef/bartender may have a great idea but I think the customer should retain the right to make "reasonable" substitutions. Taylor's request was merely a change in bourbon brands. Taylor didn't ask for rum or vodka or gin to substitute for bourbon. Just to change the brand. Serve the drink with a disclaimer if you must just remember - restaurants survive by keeping their diners happy, not by belittling their tastes or preferences.

One could argue that mixing anything with a bourbon changes that bourbons profile. Bartenders grimace when anyone asks for a call bourbon and coke. AND YET, that's what the customer likes so pour it already. Refusing to pour a mixed cocktail with a different brand bourbon is just another form of culinary "dick swinging" ( please excuse the vulgarity.) bartenders need to focus on some other way to feel superior to the very folk that keeps them working.
This "My palate is superior to your palate" BS is trite and boring.
Remember, it's a food SERVICE industry, not university or church.

Yes, mixing anything with Bourbon obviously changes the flavor of the drink, which is why the bartender selected that specific bourbon to create the cocktail with, because it has the characteristics they are looking for in their cocktail.

There are obviously restaurants that cater to a certain clientele that wants what they want and how they want it. And then there are other restaurants and bars that are trying to improve their guests experience by introducing them to things that they have paired together for a reason. If you choose to attend the latter type of restaurant then you should trust the bartenders and chefs.

If you're not interested in the cocktails/food at the latter then you are more than welcome to order something else or go to the former type of restaurant.

Sure. I get it but to flatly refuse to change the drink is pretty silly.
I mean look at the martini. It is supposed to be made with gin. I bet there are more vodka martinis made than gin. Also, every Manhattan made in Louisville is not a true Manhattan. Originally it was made with rye or blended whiskey. In NYC they still make them with rye.

One could argue that mixing anything with a bourbon changes that bourbons profile. Bartenders grimace when anyone asks for a call bourbon and coke. AND YET, that's what the customer likes so pour it already. Refusing to pour a mixed cocktail with a different brand bourbon is just another form of culinary "dick swinging" ( please excuse the vulgarity.) bartenders need to focus on some other way to feel superior to the very folk that keeps them working.
This "My palate is superior to your palate" BS is trite and boring.
Remember, it's a food SERVICE industry, not university or church.

Yes, mixing anything with Bourbon obviously changes the flavor of the drink, which is why the bartender selected that specific bourbon to create the cocktail with, because it has the characteristics they are looking for in their cocktail.

There are obviously restaurants that cater to a certain clientele that wants what they want and how they want it. And then there are other restaurants and bars that are trying to improve their guests experience by introducing them to things that they have paired together for a reason. If you choose to attend the latter type of restaurant then you should trust the bartenders and chefs.

If you're not interested in the cocktails/food at the latter then you are more than welcome to order something else or go to the former type of restaurant.

So, if I were to go into Feast BBQ and your menu shows ( for example) a pulled pork sandwich on a kaiser roll . I don't like kaiser rolls. But I do love rye bread. Would I be able to get my pulled pork on rye bread or will I be told I cannot fully appreciate the experience of your BBQ sandwich unless I eat it on a kaiser roll? Please tell me because there are a great many other great BBQ places to experience.

The point is, not everybody goes out for an experience or to gain some sort of culinary education. . Some people go out because they've had a tiring day and they simply don't want to cook. I appreciate that a chef/bartender may have a great idea but I think the customer should retain the right to make "reasonable" substitutions. Taylor's request was merely a change in bourbon brands. Taylor didn't ask for rum or vodka or gin to substitute for bourbon. Just to change the brand. Serve the drink with a disclaimer if you must just remember - restaurants survive by keeping their diners happy, not by belittling their tastes or preferences.

Feast BBQ, as a BBQ restaurant is of the former. We will give the customer what they want as long as it's within our realm of ability. We only have one bread choice though, a fantastic locally made brioche, so if you're looking for a Rye or Kaiser specifically we won't be able to cater to your preferences.

I understand exactly what you're saying, but I unfortunately feel like you're missing what I'm saying.
Yes, I understand there are nights you don't want to cook and you just want what you want. Everyone is like that, but I'm not going to go to Eleven Madison Park, Momofuku, Corton, Alder, Prune, Empellon, Mission Chinese, PDT, Pegu Club, or even a locally chef/bartender driven restaurant/bar and ask them to change what they've spent time creating because it doesn't suit my mood that evening (I've purposefully left out the names of local establishments as I'm sure some of them don't want to be dragged into this).

If I'm hankering for food/drink my way, I'm going to go to a restaurant that caters to that; not a chef/bartender driven restaurant.

I'm thinking the same as Stephen and Ryan. If you order a place's specialty cocktails, they've ( hopefully) carefully crafted the flavors, and I would not ask or expect them to change the ingredients ( including spirit brand) in that drink. To me that's like ordering the chef's specialty in a fine restaurant with entirely different ingredients- it's not the same dish.
I would however do what was suggested before - say " I 'd really love this cocktail combination- could the bartender make something like this concept but with X brand for me? Or suggest something they think I'd like that is similar?" and I'd expect every place I know to happily come up with something for me.
Deb

http://youtu.be/6wtfNE4z6a8

I'm more knowledgeable than any mixologist about the bourbon that I want on a particular night. He could be the best mixologist on the planet, but I know my preferences better than he does.

My last trip to Majid's (no Stephen ), I wanted the Tobacco Manhattan, but I wanted it strong. So, I called for Knob Creek as the bourbon. I got the exact drink that I wanted, (and another ), with no hassles.

If I were to go to a bar or restaurant and have an order for a drink that I wanted refused, I may or may not leave immediately, but I'd have serious second thoughts about ever going back. This might actually be worse than weak and watered down drinks for me. It's the Rubicon!

Has it really come to this in Louisville, Kentucky of all places? You might be refused your requested bourbon in a cocktail? If so, it is seriously misguided.

OTOH, if it's one of those cask aged cocktails, or these throwpack punches I've been reading about, then clearly, substitutions aren't practical.

So, keep doing what you do mixologists, I will adjust accordingly.

Taste buds differ from person to person. One persons sublime is another's "too salty/sweet/bitter". It isn't a matter of preference, it is a matter of how your sense receptors work. . And if a chef or bartender smokes, well they're not tasting much of anything anyway despite what they THINK they're tasting.

So let me ask a question-
At the end of a meal who do you want leaving your restaurant/bar- a person that leaves happy because they could relax, get what they wanted/ needed and are now leaving with a heart and bellyful of warm fuzzies OR a diner/drinker that leaves having not gotten what they wanted but they are now educated to the bartender's personal whims and tastes? And were perhaps embarrassed in front of their fellow diners in the process? Which diner will return?

It's a service industry folks and that means making some compromises to your public. I don't want to stifle artistic freedom of any kind but you HAVE to find a middle ground and you MUST make your client happy in order to stay in business. Buildings are filled with the ghosts of fine, wonderful, cutting edge restaurants that wouldn't find that middle ground and are now defunct, their platform for visionary, culinary offerings lost. Why? Because they only wanted to sell to those "in the know".

Some people dine out for the cutting edge experience and are willing to put their tastes in the hands of a talented chef or bartender and have that memorable, exciting evening. But many (and probably more than you would think) are terrified by that idea. Others after having traveled around, eaten around or having cooked for themselves for years, pretty much know what they like. I think it is the height of arrogance to assume you know better than they as to what they want to put in their mouth.

Bottom line is Taylor's request was minimal and refusal to meet her request bordered on idiocy.

I think a good compromise would be for the bartender to politely push back and explain why a particular bourbon was chosen for that drink, but then be ready to give in and make it with the customer's preferred brand if she insists.

I know that if I made a request to sub a bourbon like this, I wouldn't be at all offended if the bartender said something like, "I'll be happy to make that change for you if you like, but I don't recommend it. We picked Blanton's for this drink because it has [x, y, z characteristics] which are really highlighted well by the other ingredients. If we change the bourbon, it probably won't taste as good. But, like I said, I'm happy to make the change if that's what you want."