CJ beats us to the Café; loves the place

[Robin Garr]

Dang! Second week in a row that Marty gets to a popular spot before I do. Last week Seviche Bistro (my report will be coming in Thursday's Voice) and now The Café (watch for my review in Wednesday's LEO). I don't know whether I ought to start hitting new spots earlier or just not worry about it since so few people read the CJ any more anyway. But I digress: The Café is a favorite, and Marty gets it right in this strongly positive review. The only question being that frequently recurring one: If he declares it possibly "the only cafe you'll ever need," "better than ever" and "without peer," and pens a 600-word review with absolutely not one critical word, then why does he stop 1/2-star short of awarding his top rating? Further evidence, as if any was needed, that a four-star system is not fine-grained enough to accommodate a city with a restaurant scene as diverse as ours.

[url=http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071124/SCENE02/71124006/1044]The Cafe still has the touch
Whimsy, attention to detail shine at new location[/url]

<B>The Café</B>
712 Brent St.
(502) 637-6869
http://www.thecafetogo.com

then why does he stop 1/2-star short of awarding his top rating?

Because they make sandwiches? Even if a restaurant makes the world most perfect sandwiches should it get the same ranking as a restaurant where chefs who have spent their entire lives in training create dishes that have the highest degree of difficulty and call on a lifetime of restaurant experience? No way.
Papaya King in NYC makes a perfect hot dog, but it's still a hot dog and Papaya King does not deserve the same ranking as Per Se.

[Robin Garr]

Because they make sandwiches? Even if a restaurant makes the world most perfect sandwiches should it get the same ranking as a restaurant where chefs who have spent their entire lives in training create dishes that have the highest degree of difficulty and call on a lifetime of restaurant experience? No way.
Papaya King in NYC makes a perfect hot dog, but it's still a hot dog and Papaya King does not deserve the same ranking as Per Se.

Sorry. The daily newspaper, diminished as it is, gets one review per week. The critic features a place in a review of unalloyed praise, without a single negative word about <i>anything</i>. Where's the justification for less than a top rating.

I understand what you're saying about fine dining, but we're dealing with a very coarse-grained system here in which, even counting half-stars, the critic has a range of only eight rating levels. If they're distributed evenly, this means that no non-fine-dining restaurant can ever rank in the top 12.5% of all Louisville restaurants, and that's just not fair.

Change the system, or open up the top rank to "best of its class," one or the other.

As for Papaya king, I've eaten at Papaya King. It falls so far short of The Cafe in so many ways that it's not possible to compare them. I didn't even go there when we lived in NYC.

Ate breakfast there yesterday before I read the CJ review. All the dishes that the four of us had were very good. They get a 4 star from me for breakfast and lunch. Had a nice crowd there too.
Again as I have stated in the past, the stars mean little to me, it is the 600 or less words that I go by.
Doug Chin

Because they make sandwiches? Even if a restaurant makes the world most perfect sandwiches should it get the same ranking as a restaurant where chefs who have spent their entire lives in training create dishes that have the highest degree of difficulty and call on a lifetime of restaurant experience? No way.
Papaya King in NYC makes a perfect hot dog, but it's still a hot dog and Papaya King does not deserve the same ranking as Per Se.

Sorry. The daily newspaper, diminished as it is, gets one review per week. The critic features a place in a review of unalloyed praise, without a single negative word about <i>anything</i>. Where's the justification for less than a top rating.

I understand what you're saying about fine dining, but we're dealing with a very coarse-grained system here in which, even counting half-stars, the critic has a range of only eight rating levels. If they're distributed evenly, this means that no non-fine-dining restaurant can ever rank in the top 12.5% of all Louisville restaurants, and that's just not fair.

Change the system, or open up the top rank to "best of its class," one or the other.

As for Papaya king, I've eaten at Papaya King. It falls so far short of The Cafe in so many ways that it's not possible to compare them. I didn't even go there when we lived in NYC.

When I see a sandwich counter that gets 3.5 stars, that tells me it is one great sandwich counter. I don't think that the CJ should ignore casual restaurants in its weekly review, but neither should it give those restaurants the same rankings as restaurants that do something more.

Papaya King was not offered as a comparison to The Cafe. It was offered as an example of something that is widely considered to be the best in its category, but a category that cannot be compared to a truly great restaurant. Whether you personally enjoy that NYC style of hot dog was not my point. If it's dissimilarity to The Cafe kills the analogy, then replace it with the best hamburger joint in NYC, or the best pizza joint, or the place that makes the best sandwich. The point remains the same.

Why is not fair that a casual restaurant can never rank as high as fine dining restaurant? It's perfectly fair.

[Robin Garr]

Why is not fair that a casual restaurant can never rank as high as fine dining restaurant? It's perfectly fair.

First, I'm not sure I agree. I can (and do) make an equally strong case that every restaurant should be rated on the basis of whether it achieves the highest possible standard within its niche.

Second, I'm not sure you carefully read my specific observation: I'm objecting in part to the CJ's rating system, in concert with your philosophy about higher ratings for fine dinings. By limiting the critic to a rating system with only eight categories, AND denying the top niche to all but fine-dining restaurants, you're not just closing one star set, you're denying the top octile, a full 12.5% of all rating levels, to all but fine-dining. To me, <i>that</i> seems unfair. Particularly if we consider establishments on the cusp between upscale casual and "fine dining," whatever that is. Where do you draw the line between 610 or the Oakroom, Varanese, Bourbon's Bistro, Varanese or L&N?

So we really have two issues that need to be addressed: The philosophy that only fine-dining rates a top rating, AND the CJ's coarse-grained ratings sytem. Put them together and limit the top rank to only a few restaurants, and that's a real recipe for unfairness, in my opinion.

Ron and Robin on the star system, round 47.

In short:

Ron supports considering degree of difficulty in conferring stars
Robin supports stars based on how well a genre is executed

I agree

[Robin Garr]

Ron and Robin on the star system, round 47.

In short:

Ron supports considering degree of difficulty in conferring stars
Robin supports stars based on how well a genre is executed

I agree

Ron and Robin on the star system, round 47.

In short:

Ron supports considering degree of difficulty in conferring stars
Robin supports stars based on how well a genre is executed

I agree

from now on, I am just going to cut and paste this synopsis of our debate in any thread where the issue arises.

[Robin Garr]

from now on, I am just going to cut and paste this synopsis of our debate in any thread where the issue arises.

To make it complete, please include a brief note about the limitations of the CJ's short, coarse-grained rating scheme.

We ate lunch at the new Cafe on Friday (I refuse to go near a store on "Black Friday" and the day after Christmas!). It was wonderfull!! I had the strata and Richard had the ham and cheese sandwich - I can't remember the name. The space is very airy and bright and the food is still fantastic. If they start a dinner menu, I will just move in.

John and I had Sunday breakfast at the Brent St. location of The Cafe for the third time yesterday. We really love the place - love the decor, love the food, love the location (so convenient to the Highlands), love that breakfast is served all day on the weekends.

It's been packed each time we've been there, and service was not inattentive yesterday, but the food was a bit slow coming out. But hey, I'm just glad to see them so busy! John had the "Rubino", which is something like a Reuben (could have used more sauerkraut) and tomato-dill soup, and I had the egg croissant sandwich and roasted potatoes. I rarely eat dessert but I must admit their grouping of cakes on pedestals by the hostess stand is always tempting. I see Italian Cream Cake, something super chocolate-y, and a very pink strawberry number that allllllmost got me. I also walked to the back of the room while we were waiting and saw some other great-looking house-baked goods in a bakery display case by the carry out counter - bread pudding, fruit pies and a yummy-looking chess pie.

I can't think of anywhere else we've eaten breakfast more than three times in one year except maybe Cracker Barrel a couple years. We have not been to Wild Eggs yet, and have been discouraged away by the wait-time for a table at Toast on Market twice...but I'm determined to eat at both! However, I have a feeling that the prices at The Cafe are slightly lower than WE or ToM. Has anyone been to all three?

i had a great takeout lunch from the Cafe today.
an old friend was waiting tables when i walked in and i asked what she recommended. she said that the chicken salad and tomato dill soup were fantastic. i took both recommendations and was not disappointed!
the soup was light and very flavorful. the sandwich was enormous (i ate half and am saving the rest for dinner). fresh apples and a delicious walnut bread sent the sandwich over the top!
soup, sandwich and a light pasta salad came to eleven dollars with tax. a lovely lunch for the price!

I neglected to say our whole meal cost $26, with the tip it came to right at $32.

I'm a huge fan of the Cafe'. It seems that we've been dropping in there at least every other weekend for a few months now. I'm totally addicted to the Strata!! Price-wise, I'd say the three breakfast spots mentioned are probably in pretty close range of one another. Toast's wait times often deter us, as well. This weekend, we were on the prowl for something new, simply because I'm terrified I'll burn out on the Cafe', so we headed to Wild Eggs. There was about a 35 minute wait there, as compared to an hour at Toast. Wild eggs has always been good, and we had no complaints at all about the service or the food. However, when we left, we both agreed that the Cafe' is still our favorite.