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Shane Campbell

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Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Shane Campbell » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:57 pm

Had some beers and a big bowl of tasty chili with brisket at Against The Grain last evening. Our first bartender/server flat out rocked! She poured full beers every time and I'm all about a full pour! We were having a good time and the cask conditioned bitter ale was so effing good all I can think about is going back for more! More's the pity we had to leave early!

When our rockstar server went off shift, the beers delivered to our table, became two and three headed monsters! What do I mean? A head on my beer the width of my index finger is the most I'll except. More than that and there will be trouble. I'm paying for beer not froth.

With few exceptions, the top of the glass is the widest part. You take ¾ of an inch off the top of a 16 oz pint glass and you have just shorted me nearly a half a cup of beer! I'm sure “they” know this, with “they” being the bean counting manager types that determine such things. I've come to accept that, with few exceptions, I will be shorted the half cup but more than that and I will take exception!

Admittedly, when the offending pint doesn't come until the fourth round I might be inclined to pretend not to notice. Last night there was no chance of not noticing, as one of the other party drinking with me knows of my intolerance for a fool's pour and immediately pointed it out. I looked to see what the others had got and if anything their pours were even worse.

The fellow across from me, still wearing his black mohair coat over a dapper button down, paisley tie, and pageboy hair was looking at a full two inches of head filling up his bloody glass! He had only just arrived and this was his first round. He looked ready to call the whole thing off. Without saying a word I got up and strode off with a purpose. I imagined they were looking at each other and saying “Oh no, now there's going to be trouble!”

When I returned from the loo, a very well-appointed and nice smelling one I might add, the offending tumescent erection had entirely subsided in my glass and it appeared that someone had taken several gulps from my beer. I knew this wasn't so and I decided I would not order another pint here tonight. It just wasn't worth it. I looked over at the bar and noticed that our original bartender was now sitting on a stool in the front.

I nursed my own fool's pour then a water through a couple more equally disappointing rounds and wondered what to do about the tip. I had asked our original server about cashing out with her when the switch was made but she said not to worry as she had already transferred the ticket. I wasn't worried for me, I just like to take care of the people who take good care of me. Finally, I just got up and walked over to where she was sitting and tipped her separately for the beers she had served us.

So why do I make such a big deal about this? Well, in many places I wouldn't expect any better. I've stopped going to one well-known place in town because of this issue. I expect better from a place that is owned and operated by brewers though. Yet, more often than not, they serve me an incompetently poured beer here. I always call them on it and I've heard plenty of ridiculous excuses. “Well, there is just a lot of foam on the cask beer.” “Yeah, there's a lot of air in the lines right now.” or my favorite, “People complain if we don't put enough head on the beer.”

Puleese! The first two, even if true, are not my problem and only become my problem when I'm given a short pour. In the last case, I would say pour those morons as short as you can, even offer to upcharge them for extra head. “Every fool and his money” anyway!

So why am I bothering to continue to complain about Against The Grain's short pouring policy and even more important, why do I continue to go there when I know I'm going to get short pours!

Because they brew excellent, excellent, excellent, beers and put them on cask! For this alone, I will put up with the immature beer names, the short-sighted never brew it twice policy, and the brew anything because we can arrogance.

As long as they continue to let me come in and drink their excellent beer, I will do so and I will complain that they show so little respect for their customers. Of course, naming their beers as they do also shows little respect for their beer.

I fully expect to walk in one day to see “Tumescent Erection” written large across the board. It'll be a Schwarzbier with a towering head no doubt!
Last edited by Shane Campbell on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rob Coffey

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Re: Fools Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Rob Coffey » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:25 pm

A lot depends on style of bear. I just measured on my SchneiderWeisse glassware and there is 1 5/16ths inches above the .5L line. If I got that much head on a bitter, say, I would be annoyed. But on a hefeweizen, that is right on.

And that is the answer to the question: graduated glassware. Beer to the line, head above the line. Ive discussed this with some Brits and they dont quite agree, as much of their glassware is imperial pint to the tip top and a "reasonable" head is still expected. But from what I understand, asking for a top up often occurs in pubs there.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Carol C » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:45 pm

Shane, you need one of these :lol: Bob carries his everywhere--endears him to all our restaurant friends!!!

http://www.thebeergauge.com/
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Shane Campbell

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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Shane Campbell » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:26 pm

Thanks Carol! I would get one but honestly no one really argues with me if I tell them they've underserved me. Sometimes they don't even offer the aforementioned lame ass excuses. They just bring me a full beer or I don't order any more.

I has occurred to me that they may filler up with something other than beer but honestly, even though I'm emphatic about my dissatisfaction here, I know that acting like a dick to the serving staff is the worst way to get your way.

The fact that someone has marketed such a device does indicate that this is a recognized problem. I never even ask how much a beer costs. I couldn't tell you how much a beer at ATG costs right now. I will bear the cost, I just ask that they bring me a full beer. When I go into a restaurant I promise to pay what I owe them at the end. I just wish they would deliver what they promise at the beginning! Cheers Carol and Bob!
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Re: Fools Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Shane Campbell » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:41 pm

Rob Coffey wrote:A lot depends on style of bear. I just measured on my SchneiderWeisse glassware and there is 1 5/16ths inches above the .5L line. If I got that much head on a bitter, say, I would be annoyed. But on a hefeweizen, that is right on.

And that is the answer to the question: graduated glassware. Beer to the line, head above the line. Ive discussed this with some Brits and they dont quite agree, as much of their glassware is imperial pint to the tip top and a "reasonable" head is still expected. But from what I understand, asking for a top up often occurs in pubs there.


I lived in East Anglia for three years and spent most of my time in the pubs as evidenced by the 35lbs I gained while there. In that part of England a beer was poured to the rim. I was told that in the mid-lands and above a minimal head was traditional. I assure you know one in England when I lived there would have accepted a beer poured like the ones that were served at ATG yesterday.

So go back to England you might say - if your eight. I don't have to. I get served full up 20oz pints at both NABC locations, I get served full 20oz pints at BBC. I get served full pints at Apocalypse. I got shorted one too many times at Sergio's and got lip when I protested so I stopped going there.

Two weekends ago I drank at AP Crafters and at River City Taphouse. Full pints at both. Really, I'm making a big deal about this because this is a place that I should never have to address this issue and it is the one place that I know I will nearly always have to.

ATG does a lot of things well. Consistently serving a properly poured beer is not one of them. Those who accept a short pour without saying anything are doing everyone a disservice.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by JamesBHess » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:26 am

Shane Campbell wrote:So why am I bothering to continue to complain about Against The Grain's short pouring policy and even more important, why do I continue to go there when I know I'm going to get short pours!

Because they brew excellent, excellent, excellent, beers and put them on cask! For this alone, I will put up with the immature beer names, the short-sighted never brew it twice policy, and the brew anything because we can arrogance.


I came to the opposite conclusion. The short pours, immature beer names and the strange random assortment of beer glassware (dimpled mugs are not proper beer glassware for any beer!) was just too much. The first time we went there, my wife was server a mug full of bottom of the cask sludge which should have been poured down the drain. The server just didn't know any better.

There are too many other great craft beer destinations to bother with ATG. Rich O's/Sportstime/NABC Pizzeria/Pub alone serves a greater variety and quality of beer and more reasonably priced to not need another beer bar in the city.

It is a shame really, and a disappointment. The ATG location is great and I know great beer can be brewed there. I spent many spring and summer evenings after work drinking Brownings ESB and Helles on the front patio and at the bar in the winter. I believe Louisville can support more craft beer breweries than we have, but ATG struck out for me.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Jason G » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:57 am

You guys are some SERIOUS beer snobs if you don't like a place because of the beer names and the texture of the glassware. My god.

I ate there for the first time recently and thought the food and the beer were both great.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Jeremy J » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:04 am

Yeah, I gotta say, the full pour issue seems damn valid to me, but judging the names?? I mean, you do drink beer, right? Nearly all of my favorite craft breweries use numerous immature beer names. Stone, 3 Floyds, Oskar Blues, Founders, NABC, Revolution and that's just a handful of the US ones alone. It's kind of what makes beer snobbery an everyman's snobbery.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Todd Antz » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:15 am

I had a business meeting at a restaurant last night and was handed a beer with an inch and 1/2 head on it. I normally would have thought nothing of it but when handed the beer, I immediately thought of this post. I pointed it out to the server and asked him to come back in a few minutes to top me off, which he graciously (at least to my face) did. I thanked him for taking care of the issue. Due to that service, I added an extra 5% onto my regular tip for taking care of me, but more importantly, I received the extra 2-3 ounces of beer that was due to me. Winners all around.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Robin Garr » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:18 am

A couple of thoughts (and let's take care to keep it clean and above-the-belt, guys. :mrgreen: )

First, I like AtG. I like the space, and I respect that the guys there are trying to do things a little different. I don't mind the wacky beer names. I've been following the American beer and home brewing scene since the '80s (David Pierce can testify), and I know this is a part of that culture. Alimony Ale, anyone? I don't even get worked up about mixed beerware, as long as it's clean.

As for the "short pours," I have mixed feelings. I don't like getting shorted when I'm paying any more than anybody else. On the other hand, I hate to get a beer with no head. Foam on top is important in cappuccino and beer, and I am much more offended when the clueless booth personnel at Slugger Field pour my craft beer up to a smooth, foam-free surface "because that's the way people like their Bud Light" than I am when a craft brewery serves me with a head a little too thick. If I'm really concerned about it, I'll grab the server on the spot and politely ask for a top-off. If I get guff at THAT point, then I might be outtathere, but not until.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by JamesBHess » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:00 am

I am absolutely a beer snob or geek and I'm not ashamed of it. Wine people don't want to be served wine in a coffee mug or a tea glass. Foodies don't want to eat off of paper plates, unless from a food truck. Presentation is just a important for beer as wine and fine food.

The names of the ATG beers is really just the icing on the cake for me, however I don't think it would be fair of me to criticize their beers or food without specific details. The names are just obnoxious, not offensive. I could get over it real quick. Flat 12 Mustache Ride is an awesome beer even if it is embarrassing to ask for.

ATG's concept is really designed for beer geeks like me. The idea of a place that only brews one-of-kind batches is right up my alley. I heard Bo and Luke was really good and Knotty Squirrel was great. I love that they bring in collaborators like De Molen and Mikkeller.

I just expect a beer place, brewery, brewpub to give the beer the same respect as the ATG concept would lead a beer snob like me to believe they have.
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Brad Keeton » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:57 pm

Flying Dog Pearl Necklace anyone? :lol:
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by JustinHammond » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:00 pm

The Dirty Dozen: Sexually Influenced Beer Names

http://www.beertastetest.com/blog/dirty ... beer-names
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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Robin Garr » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:03 pm

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Re: Fool's Pour Not Full Pours at Against The Grain

by Steve P » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Robin Garr wrote:The Best Beer Names ...

http://aleheads.com/2010/08/12/the-best-beer-names/


The Dark Horse "Smells-like-Weed" IPA gave me cause to ponder....

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1471/51287

Given that when "weed" is mixed in with (say) a batch of Brownies or Chocolate Chip cookies it gives the finished product (shall we say) certain interesting properties...and given that when certain mushrooms are boiled down and copious amounts of water and Kool-Aid are added it gives one a whole new outlook on life (not that I had any any experience with any of this back in the 1970's mind you)...Is it not possible then that (say) a homebrewer adding a wee sack full of whacky-tobacky to his or her wort might discover the finished product holds the same medicinal properties ???....and if so might we begin seeing some interesting brews come from the states where said product has recently been legalized ?

Just wondering...
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