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Will Crawford

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Will Crawford » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:52 pm

Aaron Newton wrote:
Will Crawford wrote:
So you are saying that I, as a perspective member, would be told a bunch of lies so that when I get in the door I am greeted with a "Stepford Wife" kind of situation.? " Come on in Will. Your wife will now be taken into the lab for some fittings and "changes". Relax, you will love it" Sorry I do not buy the two different stories.


Things can change and progress can be made. It is in the best interest of the club to move forward and I think they see that.


Making a cold call to a private club where you must be sponsored by an existing member doesn't make you a prospective member. At that point you are just a random guy on the phone fishing for information. I would not put it past the public face of a club known for discrimination to bend the truth when answering pointed questions about such issues on a random phone call. I think a little healthy skepticism is called for in this instance.


Okay I will stop doing the rational thing and let this thread continue on its witch hunt. By all means continue with the hearsay and rumors.

Deb Hall wrote:Will,

I have no knowledge of whether Pendennis has changed or not. But I would be shocked if an employee would answer anything other than " there are no restrictions" on a phone call, regardless of policy or actuality. They don't know who you are or what your intent is- you could be a reporter , or someone working for the NAACP. Employees should absolutely have been trained to answer that way, otherwise they are opening Pendennis to risk.

Deb


Shocked that someone would tell the truth? Wow. Conspiracy theories everywhere.
But what do I know. I'm just an angry old white dude.
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Deb Hall

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Deb Hall » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:06 pm

Shocked that someone would tell the truth? Wow. Conspiracy theories everywhere.
But what do I know. I'm just an angry old white dude.

Will,
I'm not suggesting a conspiracy. Good HR and lawyers would tell employees at any business not to answer this question over the phone - it's a question of risk and exposure.
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Robin Garr

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Robin Garr » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:11 pm

Deb Hall wrote:I'm not suggesting a conspiracy. Good HR and lawyers would tell employees at any business not to answer this question over the phone - it's a question of risk and exposure.

I see both sides of this, and hope this is a conversation we can have without any of us feeling insulted or aggrieved. :(

I think Deb is absolutely right that a private club that secretly wished to discriminate would be loath to come right out and disclose that to an unknown caller.

I also suspect that Will is right that the Pendennis has changed since our parents' and grandparents' time. The world has changed, society has changed, and frankly, a lot of the old plantation types have died or retired or been quietly shuffled off by their families to high-end nursing homes. :oops:

And primarily, going back to a point I made up-thread, I just don't think the Pendennis is very relevant any more. Its membership is likely way down, and I expect they'd be more than willing to accept just about anyone who would want to join and has the money.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Will Crawford » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:17 pm

I just offered a suggestion, that maybe the rumors could be wrong. I have not been in the club in 9 years or so. When I was invited there for lunch by a good friend, who also happens to be an extremely liberal democrat, we ate in the grill. This room used to be off limits to women. There were several women eating in the grill. To my knowledge this was the only dinning room that was off limits in the past.

But if everyone wants to continue to make up stories then there is nothing more to be done. The next time anyone wants to eat at the Oak Room or The English Grill, remember that those dinning rooms were off limits to African Americans in the past. Should we boycott these fine dinning establishments on the grounds of their past policies?
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by DanB » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:48 pm

Ahem... Joel if you're still with us.... I'd suggest your rant/screed/flounce whatever was lacking in the maturity department on a number of levels. Again, you conflate issues, use false equivalences like they're going out of style, and when called on it you just say everyone is "mansplaining", oblivious, or is an "angry old white guy". Actually that sort of conversation is not just immature. It's downright goofy. And you're the only one in the room acting angry.

Secondly, you deride sexism and racism and then turn right around and engage in rancid ageism, and from where I'm sitting it looks like the delicious irony in this is completely lost on you. Wow. FWIW my guess is that the average age here is weighted towards the baby boomers... many of whom were either first hand witnesses or directly involved in the civil rights struggle. So when you go deriding everyone as a bunch of Archie Bunkers just because they don't agree with your arguments, don't be surprised if they offer you a steaming mug of STFU.

Thirdly, and again most ironically, you seem to be engaging in some heavy hypocrisy when you go off about folks here being just "interchangeable old white guys". The gist seems to be that people that aren't just like you are interchangeable, unworthy beings. I hate to tell you but that's EXACTLY the same attitude of probably generations of old white codgers on the forbidden floor of the Pendennis club. They simply had a different demographic to deride, look down on, and generally consider interchangeable and worthless. Dude you're just like them.... you just don't know it yet.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Robin Garr » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:52 pm

DanB wrote:Ahem... Joel if you're still with us.... I'd suggest your rant/screed/flounce whatever was lacking in the maturity department on a number of levels..

You know, this post could have stood a little generosity. You're not really going to persuade anybody by telling them how immature and foolish (you think) they are.

Just a thought.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Shane Campbell » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:03 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
DanB wrote:Ahem... Joel if you're still with us.... I'd suggest your rant/screed/flounce whatever was lacking in the maturity department on a number of levels..

You know, this post could have stood a little generosity. You're not really going to persuade anybody by telling them how immature and foolish (you think) they are.

Just a thought.


I'm glad someone told him. I just wish it had been you Robin. You seem to be the only one he respects here but you've gone out of your way to remain on the side lines. JoelH disrespected everyone here who happens to be an old white guy and who didn't jump up and "LIKE" his post that was nothing more than at best second hand unsubstantiated stories.

This reminds of another immature post a while back that lost us a much valued member. You also took the wrong side on that one IMO.

I don't mind if JoelH takes his ball and goes home or if he stays. I do hope he learns something from this experience. He just won't learn it from the guy who should be offering him the lesson though.
Cheers :)
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by DanB » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:07 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
DanB wrote:Ahem... Joel if you're still with us.... I'd suggest your rant/screed/flounce whatever was lacking in the maturity department on a number of levels..

You know, this post could have stood a little generosity. You're not really going to persuade anybody by telling them how immature and foolish (you think) they are.

Just a thought.

Actually I thought I WAS being generous.

....I guess the "old" thing stung more than I want to admit. :( But generally I stand by what I said.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Robin Garr » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:04 pm

DanB wrote:....I guess the "old" thing stung more than I want to admit. :( But generally I stand by what I said.

Guys, guys, guys. :oops:

Let's look at this another way: I think DanB could have expressed himself as passionately, and much more effectively - assuming his goal is to engage Joel and not merely cement his decision to run off - if only he could have said all the same things but found a way to avoid the following:

rant/screed/flounce
lacking in the maturity department on a number of levels
immature
downright goofy
rancid
completely lost on you
don't be surprised if they offer you a steaming mug of STFU.
heavy hypocrisy

Any questions? Dan? Shane? Bueller? :mrgreen:
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Steve H » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:24 pm

It's Joel who is the troll in this thread, even though he introduced himself to Dan with that accusation. Dan is a paragon of patience and virtue from where I sit.

Joel, on the other hand, seems to have a pathologically low tolerance to the expression divergent opinions... probably not cut out for the internets.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by DanB » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:30 pm

Sure I have a question. Why don't you pick though his stuff with a fine tooth comb? Then we can all see who was throwing more ****balls. At least I shoot straight and don't scattershot the whole crowd.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Robin Garr » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:33 pm

Gentlemen, one more time, please: If we all avoid throwing stink bombs, we can still engage each other robustly. It just gets nasty when we start using pejorative terms for each other, and I'm not having that. I'm trying very hard not to take sides here, I just would like to see us all engage civilly. I'm not taking names, I'm not keeping score, and I'd really rather not have to keep Santa's List. 8)
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Shane Campbell » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:36 pm

When did Robin get eaten by Mr Rogers? Robin put SIRI on. Maybe she can offer us a little more range of emotion. Seriously, all this smiling is making me feel queasy and I still have two more hours before I can drink! :(
I'm a bitter drinker....I just prefer it that way
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Robin Garr » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:38 pm

Shane Campbell wrote:Seriously, all this smiling is making me feel queasy and I still have two more hours before I can drink! :(

Shall I put in a call to Booze 'N' Run? :lol:
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Adam C » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:23 pm

Robin Garr wrote:I just don't think the Pendennis is very relevant any more. Its membership is likely way down, and I expect they'd be more than willing to accept just about anyone who would want to join and has the money.


To put the train back on the tracks, this. They opened up to the public a few years ago for a New Years party, I went. It was weird being in there but it seemed like they were trying to "market" the place to a younger crowd because I assume they need to in order to retain membership which I also assume is lagging.
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