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Andrew Mellman

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Andrew Mellman » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:17 pm

Will Crawford wrote:Well here is one place that women will "enjoy" equal rights.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/2 ... ?hpt=hp_c1



Career military women have been lobbying for that for years; until this their paths for advancement have been stymied, as virtually all senior leadership positions require having spent time in direct combat situations.

My problem with the Pendennis is more that for years the top corporate officers in the city belonged, and conducted business in the club while barring women and minorities. Today there are minority members (last I heard was two or three), so the world is definitely changing, but we're not yet at anywhere near a parity situation!
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Doug Davis

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Doug Davis » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:49 am

Joel H wrote:
DanB wrote:Well I don't actually troll.


But you just did! And then you tried to rationalize it by googling some article about women getting together in a women-friendly space, as if that's in any way equal to the years and years of racist, sexist, exclusionary discrimination as practiced by the Pendennis Club in Louisville. Between this and "I know about Metromix -- I'm in it every month," HotBytes is reaching new highs in obliviousness! A+! Good job!



Except thats not what he did. He didnt excuse any past actions. He simply stated there are women only clubs, which there are, and left it at that.
My wife belongs to three right here in town. NAWBO, GLOW and Junior League.

Additionally there are still a number of women's only colleges around the US. Private clubs and private colleges may do as they please.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Ray Griffith » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:57 am

Joel H wrote:
DanB wrote:Well I don't actually troll.


But you just did! And then you tried to rationalize it by googling some article about women getting together in a women-friendly space, as if that's in any way equal to the years and years of racist, sexist, exclusionary discrimination as practiced by the Pendennis Club in Louisville. Between this and "I know about Metromix -- I'm in it every month," HotBytes is reaching new highs in obliviousness! A+! Good job!


Hey Robin, Is there some kind of snark-o-meter graphic that could be put on every post? :lol:
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Robin Garr

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Robin Garr » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:34 am

Ray Griffith wrote:
Hey Robin, Is there some kind of snark-o-meter graphic that could be put on every post? :lol:

No. :mrgreen:
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Alison Hanover » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:42 am

I'm with Groucho :D
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Steve P » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:22 pm

David R. Pierce wrote:In all honesty, this is just one of many things that make me ashamed to be a white male.


:roll:
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Steve P » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:37 pm

Dan Thomas wrote: I don't really understand why women would want to seek entrance to a dark room where a bunch of drunk, grumpy old curmudgeons are cussing about politics, local sports while playing cards. :roll:


It's simple human nature really...As soon as ya tell people they -can't- do something, all of a sudden they -have- to do it. Anyone who's raised kids can tell ya that. The trick is to make it work to your advantage. :wink: I think I'm going to tell Becky she isn't allowed to do the dishes anymore.
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Will Crawford

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Will Crawford » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:46 pm

All of this speculation got me making a phone call. According to the very helpful young man on the phone, you have to be sponsored by a current member to join the club. The dues are $265 per month for a full senior member with a $125 per quarter minimum. there is a $3000 initiation fee that must be paid after two years of a trail membership. You have 10 years to pay it (interest free). I asked him if there were any restrictions for membership - race, sex, religion.- No was his answer. I asked if we become members is there any place in the club that my wife could not enter. The answer was- the athletic facility because you have to enter through the mens locker room. However, there is a proposal on the table to renovate so that could change and women will be allowed into this area.

So there you have it- While the club used to be restricted and have certain restraints placed on women, that has all changed.

It is a lovely place. The old rooms are comfortable and grand. The billiards room is really neat with all the old tables and the wood panelling. If I had the time and money, I would most likely join as I hear they throw one hell of a New Years Eve party.
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Jeremy J

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Jeremy J » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:09 pm

Sincerely- not just to troll, I have to wonder how much of that is just for public consumption and PR though. What kind of pressure is put on members regarding to who and who not to sponsor? What really goes on in there? I've spoken very recently to a guy who actually works there on a nightly basis and a lot of what the gentleman on the phone said completely contradicts the account I heard.

At the end of the day, I'm not saying it's not possible that things have changed drastically, but the extensive history of racism and sexism propagated by that place is just...icky.
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Will Crawford

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Will Crawford » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:42 pm

Jeremy J wrote:Sincerely- not just to troll, I have to wonder how much of that is just for public consumption and PR though. What kind of pressure is put on members regarding to who and who not to sponsor? What really goes on in there? I've spoken very recently to a guy who actually works there on a nightly basis and a lot of what the gentleman on the phone said completely contradicts the account I heard.

At the end of the day, I'm not saying it's not possible that things have changed drastically, but the extensive history of racism and sexism propagated by that place is just...icky.


So you are saying that I, as a perspective member, would be told a bunch of lies so that when I get in the door I am greeted with a "Stepford Wife" kind of situation.? " Come on in Will. Your wife will now be taken into the lab for some fittings and "changes". Relax, you will love it" Sorry I do not buy the two different stories.


Things can change and progress can be made. It is in the best interest of the club to move forward and I think they see that.
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Joel H

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Joel H » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:15 pm

Jeremy J wrote:At the end of the day, I'm not saying it's not possible that things have changed drastically, but the extensive history of racism and sexism propagated by that place is just...icky.


Love ya, Jeremy, but I gotta say, that extensive history is more than just a little "icky." But what do I know? I'm just guy who thinks equating NAWBO (that's the National Association of Women Business Owners, for those of you scoring at home) or, say, the Girl Scouts to the awful evil that the Pendennis Club remains as a symbol of for many people in this city is pretty, well, lousy trolling.

And on that note, I'm outta here, but not without expecting some other white guys getting mad and trying to mansplain their way out of obliviousness to their own privilege. Ironic, since HotBytes seems mostly to consist, lately, of posts by angry, old, white guys willing to argue about any topic, no matter how inconsequential (pairing beer with spicy food -- ps. hey guys, if you're not Asian, then it's not YOUR cuisine, no matter how much you think paying for something makes you their boss) or, y'know, actually important (ie. racism and sexism). I'll let you guys (ahem) try and figure out why the majority of posters here are, well, pretty much interchangeable in terms of that demographic. Maybe if some guys here were more accustomed to listening and reading, and then positively responding, especially to people outside their milieu, I'd want to keep posting here. Between this thread, and the way Ken B. was treated on the beer pairing thread, though, I'm not sure I see the point.

When I worked in the food service industry, one of the most important, and crucial, pieces of what I found satisfying about it was the opportunity to serve all people, people of all kinds, not just whomever I wanted. Yeah, sometimes I might complain about a table or three, but would never have anything to do with what race or gender or sexual orientation of people were at that table. Louisville would be a lot better place if we found ways to relate to each other, to find our interests in common, instead of using food -- of all things! -- to keep dividing. The Pendennis Club doesn't have any interest now, nor has it ever, in treating all people the same, nor is it any way comparable to any other club that serves as a safe space for those who frequent it. Only an insane person -- or perhaps an old white guy -- would think so.

Robin, I have to say that I have major respect for you and what you've tried to create with this forum. You've tried to create a community of thoughtful, respectful food and beverage fans. Unfortunately, I think that hasn't happened, though not without your trying. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers occasionally, but, until now, I'd rather do that than stand by. Now I'm not sure it's worth it. It's kind of a bummer to leave HotBytes to the interchangeable white dudes, but they're so busy arguing with themselves and others to even notice.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Carla G » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:09 am

Joel you are not alone out there.
Please keep posting.
One of the reasons I love this forum so much is because of the sincere passion we often see in these posts. Those that are willing to grow and constantly re-evaluate their own human condition will. There will always be folks that feel they have already "arrived on high". But from my own experience I have had to rethink some things that I thought were obvious truths simply because I had never questioned them before. (When you get to be an old fart I guess you get tired of questioning what you hold near and dear. It's just so much work!) My point being is you never know what tidbit you share might strike a chord with someone else. The forum is pretty good about keeping things civil and respectful to others. So come on... stay and play.
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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Steve H » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:48 am

Joel H wrote:Robin, I have to say that I have major respect for you and what you've tried to create with this forum. You've tried to create a community of thoughtful, respectful food and beverage fans. Unfortunately, I think that hasn't happened, though not without your trying. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers occasionally, but, until now, I'd rather do that than stand by. Now I'm not sure it's worth it. It's kind of a bummer to leave HotBytes to the interchangeable white dudes, but they're so busy arguing with themselves and others to even notice.


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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Deb Hall » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:27 pm

Will,

I have no knowledge of whether Pendennis has changed or not. But I would be shocked if an employee would answer anything other than " there are no restrictions" on a phone call, regardless of policy or actuality. They don't know who you are or what your intent is- you could be a reporter , or someone working for the NAACP. Employees should absolutely have been trained to answer that way, otherwise they are opening Pendennis to risk.

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Re: A Louiville mainstay inNYT Magazine

by Aaron Newton » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:37 pm

Will Crawford wrote:
So you are saying that I, as a perspective member, would be told a bunch of lies so that when I get in the door I am greeted with a "Stepford Wife" kind of situation.? " Come on in Will. Your wife will now be taken into the lab for some fittings and "changes". Relax, you will love it" Sorry I do not buy the two different stories.


Things can change and progress can be made. It is in the best interest of the club to move forward and I think they see that.


Making a cold call to a private club where you must be sponsored by an existing member doesn't make you a prospective member. At that point you are just a random guy on the phone fishing for information. I would not put it past the public face of a club known for discrimination to bend the truth when answering pointed questions about such issues on a random phone call. I think a little healthy skepticism is called for in this instance.
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