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Stephen D

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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Stephen D » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:11 am

It should also be kindly pointed out that the Courier awards a maximum of four stars, not five.


Please kindly review Marty Rosen's reviews at Metromix: http://louisville.metromix.com/restaura ... collection. They show a scale of five stars.

That's a user rating. I don't believe Marty awards through that publication, although I have been known to be wrong.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Carla G » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:38 pm

Stephen D wrote:
It should also be kindly pointed out that the Courier awards a maximum of four stars, not five.


Please kindly review Marty Rosen's reviews at Metromix: http://louisville.metromix.com/restaura ... collection. They show a scale of five stars.

That's a user rating. I don't believe Marty awards through that publication, although I have been known to be wrong.


This and you may want to make sure it wasn't a review of Marty's from when he wrote for LEO. (I doubt that it would be since that's been a while. )
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Zach Everson

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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Zach Everson » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:46 pm

Please kindly review Marty Rosen's reviews at Metromix: http://louisville.metromix.com/restaura ... collection. They show a scale of five stars.

That's a user rating. I don't believe Marty awards through that publication, although I have been known to be wrong.


It say's "Critic's Rating" right next to the stars. And Metromix = Courier-Journal. Are you guys not local? :roll:
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Carla G » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:49 pm

Oh yeah , we ARE local Zachary, we just stopped reading the CJ when it stopped being a newspaper.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Dan E » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:47 pm

Zach Everson wrote:
Please kindly review Marty Rosen's reviews at Metromix: http://louisville.metromix.com/restaura ... collection. They show a scale of five stars.

That's a user rating. I don't believe Marty awards through that publication, although I have been known to be wrong.


It say's "Critic's Rating" right next to the stars. And Metromix = Courier-Journal. Are you guys not local? :roll:



Well, it seems like a silly thing to argue about, but Marty has always done a 4-star rating system. in the courier, and the Metromix is just a re-hash of those Courier reviews. The Metromix website just doesn't appropriately reflect that, so I can see how it would cause confusion.

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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Jeremy J » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:05 pm

Zach Everson wrote:
Please kindly review Marty Rosen's reviews at Metromix: http://louisville.metromix.com/restaura ... collection. They show a scale of five stars.

That's a user rating. I don't believe Marty awards through that publication, although I have been known to be wrong.


It say's "Critic's Rating" right next to the stars. And Metromix = Courier-Journal. Are you guys not local? :roll:


Ok. I officially like Zach.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Steve Shade » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Jeremy J wrote:

Ok. I officially like Zach.


I'm with you.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Stephen D » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:31 am

Dan E wrote:
Zach Everson wrote:
Please kindly review Marty Rosen's reviews at Metromix: http://louisville.metromix.com/restaura ... collection. They show a scale of five stars.

That's a user rating. I don't believe Marty awards through that publication, although I have been known to be wrong.


It say's "Critic's Rating" right next to the stars. And Metromix = Courier-Journal. Are you guys not local? :roll:



Well, it seems like a silly thing to argue about, but Marty has always done a 4-star rating system. in the courier, and the Metromix is just a re-hash of those Courier reviews. The Metromix website just doesn't appropriately reflect that, so I can see how it would cause confusion.

Local, regional, international...douchery knows no borders.


+1

I am quite aware of what the Metromix is- I'm in it every month. I generally don't pay too much attention to the stars given and when they are given. I read Marty's reviews and make a mental note as to what to order when I go in.

I was speculating and thought I had eluded to that.

Now I like Zach kind of like my neighbor's dog that craps on my front lawn. I like him, but don't feel the need to feed him. Especially when he likes to bite.

Now I will say this:

I reached out to Zach, but have had no return of the sentiment. Nothing but intellectual hubris.

He admits he knows nothing about food.

He admits he knows nothing about beverage.

And from what I'm seeing, he's shown no sense of class- of hospitality.

He thinks he has the station to judge our critics, with all of thier years of service, like some schoolyard brawl?

Let me file this one under 'some of the craziest things I've seen.'
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Aaron Newton » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:43 am

Stephen D wrote:

Now I will say this:

I reached out to Zach, but have had no return of the sentiment. Nothing but intellectual hubris.


Honestly, if someone spoke to/about me the way you did about Zach in your first post on this thread, I wouldn't return a later "outreach" either. I'd let it go. And the way you are jumping on him again after this lack of return only confirms that was the correct decision.

Stephen D wrote:He admits he knows nothing about food.

He admits he knows nothing about beverage.

And from what I'm seeing, he's shown no sense of class- of hospitality.


I don't believe he has admitted to either of those things.

Stephen D wrote:He thinks he has the station to judge our critics, with all of thier years of service, like some schoolyard brawl?

Let me file this one under 'some of the craziest things I've seen.'


School yard brawl? Overly dramatic. Grossly so.

There's certainly plenty of crazy (and, in relation to your earlier comment, hubris) to go around in this thread, but none of it from Zach.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Stephen D » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:51 am

Zach Everson wrote:
By all means, come and break down fois gras with me. Do you even know what a proper Sazerac requires?


Can't do either, but I know I enjoy them both. As Edward Lee told me when I mentioned my inability to prepare anything more complex than a sandwich, "The site is called Eater, not Chiefer" (or, Mixologister). Feel free to message me though: always happy to learn (and drink).


So that didn't happen? Or the scathing article that began this thread? Or the tit-for tat arguments in between?

Ok.

Aaron, I'm a pretty easy person to dial-in. In school football, I always picked the last kid, first. Then I'd make a point of knocking the bully's block off, second.

So I don't like mean-spirits and will make no bones about finding them on the field.

A pollyanna with teeth- go figure.

PS. It should also be said that I later accepted his well-reasoned response and invited him to a complimentary tasting, no harm-no foul.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Aaron Newton » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:09 am

Stephen D wrote:
So that didn't happen? Or the scathing article that began this thread? Or the tit-for tat arguments in between?

Ok.

Aaron, I'm a pretty easy person to dial-in. In school football, I always picked the last kid, first. Then I'd make a point of knocking the bully's block off, second.

So I don't like mean-spirits and will make no bones about finding them on the field.

A pollyanna with teeth- go figure.


It did happen but your interpretation is suspect at best. The man knows nothing about food because he doesn't know how to break down foie gras? Doesn't know what goes into a sazerac so he knows nothing about beverage? And you accuse HIM of intellectual hubris?

Now that supposedly scathing article ... more overly dramatic exaggeration. Critical, sure. Scathing implies a severity that just wasn't there. Classifying it as such rather implies, to me, that the point he is making is one that needs to be made.

The "tit for tat arguments" you accuse him of read more like responding to direct criticisms to me and he wasn't particularly mean spirited about any of it, but hey keep painting this image of yourself as the champion of the little guy and the enemy of bullies - I'm sure there are people reading who buy into that interpretation of events here.

Not sure why you would refer to yourself as a Pollyanna with teeth, that doesn't seem to apply here at all.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Stephen D » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:43 am

Aaron Newton wrote:
Stephen D wrote:
So that didn't happen? Or the scathing article that began this thread? Or the tit-for tat arguments in between?

Ok.

Aaron, I'm a pretty easy person to dial-in. In school football, I always picked the last kid, first. Then I'd make a point of knocking the bully's block off, second.

So I don't like mean-spirits and will make no bones about finding them on the field.

A pollyanna with teeth- go figure.


It did happen but your interpretation is suspect at best. The man knows nothing about food because he doesn't know how to break down foie gras? Doesn't know what goes into a sazerac so he knows nothing about beverage? And you accuse HIM of intellectual hubris?

Now that supposedly scathing article ... more overly dramatic exaggeration. Critical, sure. Scathing implies a severity that just wasn't there. Classifying it as such rather implies, to me, that the point he is making is one that needs to be made.

The "tit for tat arguments" you accuse him of read more like responding to direct criticisms to me and he wasn't particularly mean spirited about any of it, but hey keep painting this image of yourself as the champion of the little guy and the enemy of bullies - I'm sure there are people reading who buy into that interpretation of events here.

Not sure why you would refer to yourself as a Pollyanna with teeth, that doesn't seem to apply here at all.


No. He said that he knew nothing more than how to make a fine sandwich (and I'm sure that's one fine sandwich.) I did not put those words in his mouth. Now, you jump the credibility gap when you admit such a thing after criticizing food critics with decades under thier belts.

See, what you aren't seeing is that our critics allow restaurants to grow, guiding them along the way. They don't show up and lambast a place in an effort to gain readership through sensationalization. I think this is one of the reasons why we have so many great restaurants in this town- no critic tries to shut down any of the new ones. That's the beauty of the process- something lost here, I suppose.

M'k. So that bit about 4 or 5 stars didn't happen?

Being a pollyanna with teeth is both my blessing and my curse. I was simply explaining, in as few words as possible, my perspective. So it applies, always. Any person who has shaken my hand will tell you exaclty that. These aren't just pretty words to me- they are a way of life.

PS. In fact, I'll extend to you the same offer I did him. Please, PM me and I'll bring you in for a complimentary tasting. Shake my hand and I'm sure you will find all my pretty words to be truth. Or I'll kill myself making it so.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Aaron Newton » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:19 pm

Stephen D wrote:
No. He said that he knew nothing more than how to make a fine sandwich (and I'm sure that's one fine sandwich.) I did not put those words in his mouth. Now, you jump the credibility gap when you admit such a thing after criticizing food critics with decades under thier belts.


Obvious hyperbole is obvious, and I'm a little shocked you chose to latch on to that.

And even if he really DOES know nothing more than how to make a good sandwhich, who cares? I don't expect a critic to be an expert in PREPARING food. I want them to tell me how it tastes. Might it help? To a point, sure, but the end product is the most important thing and relating the quality of the food is almost entirely independent of knowing how to prepare it.

There's also an undercurrent here to what you are saying that's downright unsettling to me: the idea that the critic is irreproachable. Any one of us, regardless of our lack of kitchen knowledge, should be able to call our local critics to task when something is amiss.

See, what you aren't seeing is that our critics allow restaurants to grow, guiding them along the way. They don't show up and lambast a place in an effort to gain readership through sensationalization. I think this is one of the reasons why we have so many great restaurants in this town- no critic tries to shut down any of the new ones. That's the beauty of the process- something lost here, I suppose.


A critic's (ar least a commercial critic's) first responsibility is, at least in my eyes, to the consumer. Their columns exist to guide us. Where to go, where to avoid. If a restauranteur gleans aid through those reviews, that's excellent, but that's not the primary job of the critic. Again, to me anyway. I'm willing to allow that some may disagree with that position and leave it there.

M'k. So that bit about 4 or 5 stars didn't happen?


Sure, it happened I just don't think it's any sort of tit for tat argument. He was called out for apparently referencing the scale wrong, he defended it, eventually with a call back to one of the things he was first (wrongly) criticized for, in an obvious jest. I don't see it as an honest retaliatory attack launched simply as retribution for an initial attack on him. It was just a joke.

Being a pollyanna with teeth is both my blessing and my curse. I was simply explaining, in as few words as possible, my perspective. So it applies, always. Any person who has shaken my hand will tell you exaclty that. These aren't just pretty words to me- they are a way of life.


That's great but to be honest with you the first glimmer I saw of that here was in your description of your vision of the relationship between local critics and restaurants as quoted above.

You conjure these images of school yard brawls and taking down bullies, but the main thing in this thread, or the linked article that resembled either to me was your little "your snarky ass will die here" diatribe on the first page.

I understand and respect standing up to real bullies, but this thread reads more like the hive mind got their sensitive little feelings hurt and couldn't take a little criticism of the so called elder statesmen.

PS. In fact, I'll extend to you the same offer I did him. Please, PM me and I'll bring you in for a complimentary tasting. Shake my hand and I'm sure you will find all my pretty words to be truth. Or I'll kill myself making it so.


That's a kind offer but I wouldn't be able to accept - mainly because we have a five month old at home and no regular baby sitter we can leave him with at this point. Our dining out experiences since his birth, with one exception for my parents annivesary, have been restricted to very casual spots where I feel comfortable eatting with him sitting in my lap or sleeping in his stroller. It's been fun, but we do miss getting out to slightly higher end places from time to time!

And for what it's worth I do think you are being genuine here. I don't mean to cast aspersions on your sincerity. Far from it. We just have a fundamentally different take on the very nature of this discussion.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Dan E » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:55 pm

I finally looked at Eater Louisville, and oddly enough, Zach hasn't written any restaurant reviews. It's primarily a collection of restaurant-related stories he's gathered from the internet.

Is he a restaurant reviewer, or a restaurant reviewer-reviewer?

If you want to slam critics for being too nice, cool, but maybe you should at least write ONE review first?

That said, I agree that both Robin and Marty are too generous in their scoring. Although, as others have mentioned, one can usually figure out the underlying message(Having said that, I'm still a little upset about eating at El Marlin based on Marty's glowing review) I'm sure there's a way that Zach could have related this without appearing condescending and snarky.

My problem isn't with the sentiment, but with the delivery. Others may enjoy it, and that's cool too.

Just voicing my own unsolicited and uninformed opinion.
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Re: Eater Louisville slams local food writers

by Dan E » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:23 pm

Dan E wrote:Is he a restaurant reviewer, or a restaurant reviewer-reviewer?


shit, i think that makes me a restaurant reviewer-reviewer reviewer. i better go drink a beer.
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