Closing Time?

I am not one that ever causes trouble on this forum, but I feel I might stir up a hornets nest on this. I was reading a reply by Jamie O to the thread "A Facebook Servers Rant....Justified?" and felt I just had to comment and with a new thread. Jamie talks about a servers tip should be 20% as a base and not 15%, fine, but what I was going to rant about was her rules for respectful and courteous diners. Number one stated "Do not go into a sit-down restaurant 5 minutes before close (it's just rude)". Can someone on this forum please explain to me what "rude" is. Is it rude to go into a sit-down resturaunt 10 minutes before close? 30 minutes? If the restaurant states that it is open til 11:00 p.m when can I go? I have had the rudeness thrust upon me few times when entering an eatery and told by the staff that "we are closing in ten minutes". Any more I don't even bother going to a restaurant with 45 minutes or less til closing time for fear of pissing off the entire staff because they have other things to do, and that can make for a rather unpleasant dining experience.
I know that my veiws might be outdated but my father-in-law was in the restaurant business his entire life and you can bet your ass that if you walked in with 5 minutes to close, you would have been welcomed and treated as customers that were there earlier in the evening and not feel like everyone working there was staring daggers in you.
If I want to order the entire menu of sides one at a time I will do so, remembering that I am in a sit-down restaurant two hours before close not some McFood drive thru.
So tell me, when will I "just not be rude" entering a restaurant wanting to spend my hard earned money.

We stop serving at 10pm. That is my rule. If you are walking in the door at 9:59 you will be served. If you are walking in the door at 10:10 and we are still there, you will be served. I had a chef that would throw a little fit if people came in at 9:45 I had to tell this chef that this is how we make money.

So tell me, when will I "just not be rude" entering a restaurant wanting to spend my hard earned money.

I completely know where you are coming from - as a rule we won't go to a full service restaurant if their closing time is less than 1 hour before we can arrive.

[Robin Garr]

I completely know where you are coming from - as a rule we won't go to a full service restaurant if their closing time is less than 1 hour before we can arrive.

I think that's good advice, Mark. This is another of those "it's complicated" issues. On the one hand, Will has expressed the restaurant owner's position well: Up to the minute of the advertised closing time, greet diners with a smile. You say you're open, fine. You are open. And don't hover over them trying to make them uncomfortable enough to hurry.

That being said, the reality is that the poor hard-working schlubs in the front and back of the house are being forced to spend an hour or more working overtime because of the customer's decision to come at the last minute. In a good shop, they'll suck it in and keep the attitude to themselves, but I can feel the pain.

Bottom line, Will is right, but Mark Head is also right, and Mark B isn't wrong.

As a matter of manners, though, I think it's a good practice not to run up at the last minute; and timing your visit to as to be leaving at closing time is probably ideal. It's not wrong to come in at the end. It's not rude to come in at the end. But it's great manners to plan your visit so the issue doesn't even arise.

This is my take on it - from a column I wrote last spring.

http://www.louisvillehotbytes.com/closi ... -too-close

From a staff perspective, it's not so much how close to close you come in but how long after you stay. If you're gone within a half hour of close, all is well. At 45 minutes after close we are getting antsy. An hour or more and we are combining all our mental powers in an attempt to induce a stroke in the offender.

[Robin Garr]

from a column I wrote last spring.

Ignore the Email I just sent you.

from a column I wrote last spring.

Ignore the Email I just sent you.

grape minds think alike?

From a staff perspective, it's not so much how close to close you come in but how long after you stay. If you're gone within a half hour of close, all is well. At 45 minutes after close we are getting antsy. An hour or more and we are combining all our mental powers in an attempt to induce a stroke in the offender.

But Gary, a stroke would cause even more of a delay waiting for paramedics, etc....

Part of the difficulty here is that "closing" means different things to different people/places. You don't really know if 10:00 close means the time you need to leave, or the last time to enter. Some share when "the kitchen closes" - which I think is a much better explanation.

Deb

I love eating late, so this is often an issue for me. These days, I'll usually call ahead if we're coming in late. I'll ask if it's too late, and if they say "no" it's fair game. Also, I figure that by calling ahead that gives them a little while to prep for late customers (and get over the initial rush of irritation before we even arrive!).

I agree that it's hard to define what "late" is. It sort of depends on the restaurant. At some places, I know that they will be busy past the posted closing time, and the staff is accustomed to this, so I don't worry if I show up at :15 til close. Other places tend to clear out early, so I will stress if I'm getting there within an hour or even 1.5 hours of closing. A quick call usually sorts it out, though.

I was going to rant about was her rules for respectful and courteous diners. Number one stated "Do not go into a sit-down restaurant 5 minutes before close (it's just rude)". Can someone on this forum please explain to me what "rude" is. .

Fact is Mark, there is absolutely nothing "rude" about going in to a place 5 minutes before closing and expecting to be served. It's called the hospitality industry...If the sign says 'open until 10"...then they are open until 10. It might not make the server (etc) happy that you do so but <shrugs> oh well.

Conversely and on the other hand...start stacking chairs, mopping the floor, banging "closing dishes" in the section I'm dining in 30 minutes before posted closing and your 20% tip just turned into a 10% tip in the blink of an eye.

Also, I figure that by calling ahead that gives them a little while to prep for late customers (and get over the initial rush of irritation before we even arrive!).

This. Blake seems to have figured it out without even reading my column posted above.

Closing time is closing time. The time listed on the door as being closed. If you can be in and out by the time stated on the door than fine. Where else would you go and negotiate closing time? Retail stores are kicking you out at 20 till close, hotels, checkout time is checkout time, bars are kicking your butt to the curb at 4pm sharp salons stop booking clients at the time it will take them to get them finished before close. Why do we feel these rules should not apply to the restaurant industry? Where else can you go and expect to stay after hours until you are just "done" talking, shopping or whatever. The "shoulder shrug" (Steve P.) "tough titties,I do not care about you or your plans you peon you are here to serve me" attitude is the exact meaning of rude. I feel like some people look at servers as a product to be used to the best of it's ability for as little as possible. Where mistakes or forgetful actions are unforgivable and irrevocable and will be met with great consequence. Just because you can. Not all servers are trying to rush you out so they can go mingle with their homies. Some are mothers (or fathers) and you coming in 5 minutes before close keeping them an extra hour or beyond is the difference in them being able to read thier child a bedtime story and tucking them in at night or not seeing them at all (not to mention if they are holding up a sitter) some work 2 jobs or are students. I am sure they could use that extra hour to sleep or study. I have NEVER refused service to anyone nor would I ever. I also do not partake in the rush rush routines of putting the chairs up and cleaning. I would try to serve them to the best of my ability, because if I am going to be there anyways I might as well make it worth it and hope they reciprocate. I do believe in hospitality, but I also believe in respect and common courtesy for others and I stand firm on my opinion that anyone who purposely comes into an establishment knowing they will be keeping the staff beyond business hours are being selfish and self centered. Period.

I think I did read that column a while ago Marsha, and unconsciously regurgitated (not a great term for a food forum) the advice here!

Closing time is closing time. The time listed on the door as being closed. If you can be in and out by the time stated on the door than fine. Where else would you go and negotiate closing time? Retail stores are kicking you out at 20 till close, hotels, checkout time is checkout time, bars are kicking your butt to the curb at 4pm sharp salons stop booking clients at the time it will take them to get them finished before close. Why do we feel these rules should not apply to the restaurant industry?

Not parallel. Chain retailers will kick you out starting 20 min before closing, but local retailers will stay open (if you are a serious shopper). Hotels will delay check-out with a request in advance, but have to leave time to clean and prepare the room for new guests. Bars kick you out due to laws.

When we're dining late we call ahead (as per Marsha), and/or hit a place like Varanese, where the kitchen closes at x pm while the bar stays open an hour or so later; in this way, as long as we arrive prior to the kitchen closing (and have called) we know we will be served, but the fact that the bar stays open later means we won't be pushed out the door, but can relax & enjoy our meal knowing that at least some wait staff are there anyways for the bar customers.