Welcome to the Louisville Restaurants Forum, a civil place for the intelligent discussion of the local restaurant scene and just about any other topic related to food and drink in and around Louisville.

Tex-Mex vs. Mexican cuisine

no avatar
User

Ron Johnson

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1716

Joined

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:48 am

Tex-Mex vs. Mexican cuisine

by Ron Johnson » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:49 am

We had a lot of debate on this issue on the old forum. I think this article in today's NY Times does a nice job of describing the differences in a summary fashion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/24/dining/24texm.html
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

{ RANK }

Forum host

Posts

23211

Joined

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:38 pm

Location

Crescent Hill

Re: Tex-Mex vs. Mexican cuisine

by Robin Garr » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:02 am

Ron Johnson wrote:We had a lot of debate on this issue on the old forum.


Excellent article, Ron, thanks for the link. I think it makes a couple of good points, not least the one about it being difficult to impossible to find real Tex-Mex outside of Texas.

I also liked this quote, which I think says it all: "Tex-Mex isn’t Mexican food ... It is an American regional cuisine. So why do we have to apologize to Mexico for it?”

The one particularly irritating thing I recall about the old-forum debate had to do with a couple of folks (who seem to have disappeared since we moved to the new forum with its real-name, real-email requirement ;) ) who considered Louisville's real-Mexican taquerias "inauthentic" because they weren't Tex-Mex. Hmm.
no avatar
User

Aaron Newton

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

510

Joined

Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:34 pm

by Aaron Newton » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:40 am

Definitely an interesting article. The most interesting thing to me was the bit about the family who owns El Mirador considering the Tex-Mex label to be something of a slur, and that they also don't give much consideration to the supposed lack of respect given to their style of food.

Hypothetical for the day: had Texas remained a part of Mexico, would Tex-Mex exist today? And if it did exist as we know it, would the food then be considered part of Mexican cuisine mere because the border was in a different place? Should political boundaries be allowed to determine the categorization of cuisines at all?
no avatar
User

Gary Michael

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

53

Joined

Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:55 pm

Hypothetical for the day: had Texas remained a part of Mexi

by Gary Michael » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:20 pm

We'd probably be arguing about Oklahoma-Mex food! Bonus: George Bush wouldn't be president!
no avatar
User

Ron Johnson

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1716

Joined

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:48 am

by Ron Johnson » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:28 am

Aaron Newton wrote:Hypothetical for the day: had Texas remained a part of Mexico, would Tex-Mex exist today? And if it did exist as we know it, would the food then be considered part of Mexican cuisine mere because the border was in a different place? Should political boundaries be allowed to determine the categorization of cuisines at all?


The food is not Tex-Mex because the Mexican simply because the border shifted south by a few hundred miles. The food is Tex-Mex because the people that moved into that area once it was taken from Mexico were Americans. They brought their own type of cuisine with them. When their cuisine was blended with the cuisine of Mexico and the local ingredients, the result was a hybrid cuisine called Tex-Mex. So it is not the fact the border is merely in a different place, but the fact that a different ethnicity of people moved into the area when that border shifted that is responsible for the new cuisine.
no avatar
User

Aaron Newton

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

510

Joined

Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:34 pm

by Aaron Newton » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:07 am

This message is a bit longer and more disjointd than I would have liked... cobbeled together in the few spare minutes here and there this morning... not much time to go back and edit my rambling mess...
Ron Johnson wrote:
The food is not Tex-Mex because the Mexican simply because the border shifted south by a few hundred miles. The food is Tex-Mex because the people that moved into that area once it was taken from Mexico were Americans. They brought their own type of cuisine with them. When their cuisine was blended with the cuisine of Mexico and the local ingredients, the result was a hybrid cuisine called Tex-Mex. So it is not the fact the border is merely in a different place, but the fact that a different ethnicity of people moved into the area when that border shifted that is responsible for the new cuisine.


I wasn't really suggesting that it was simply because of the border, hence beginning the litany questioning whether it would exist as we know it today. I tend to think that many of those influences that created Tex-Mex were already seeping into the region and it didn't happen in such a discrete manner as 'Mexico lost texas, then americans moved in, and then we had Tex-mex.' As I understand it, the origins of Tex-Mex are actually in the pre-Mexico days when Texas was part of New Spain. Had we not taken Texas, I think a number of the later influences would still have taken hold in the region as well. While the food wouldn't be exactly as we know it, I think many elements of the region would still be substantially different from what we think of today traditionally as mexican cuisine... yet it would have happened within the Mexican borders, and the thought of what might have been becomes intriguing.

Bear in mind I'm not in any way arguing that Tex-Mex should be considered part of Mexican cuisine. But regional cuisine, much like languages, change over time both by natural internal evolution and through the introduction of outside influences as well...and perception of what does and doesn't qualify under a label is merely an interesting topic to me. I've had a number of englishmen tell me we don't speak English; we speak American, or American English. And yet I don't know anyone in America, save for a few pedantic linguists, who typically refer to the language as either. We simply say we speak English.

This situation also reminds me heavily of another interest area of mine wherein the labels have become problematic and even more at odds than in the Tex-Mex/Mexican discussion. Japanese comics, when they were first introduced to this country were referred to using the japanese word for comics, manga, because of the substantial differences in the way Japan treated comics as a medium - there was substantial difference in the comics of Japan and the comics of the west so as a convenience the Japanese word for comics was adopted into our lexicon as "Japanese comics." But in the last few years there have been an increasing number of western comics creators adapting some of the surface features of Japanese comics - they draw characters with big eye, spiky hair, the publish in black and white - and insist that they are creating manga, by emulating the style of japanese comics. Yet Japanese comics are wildly diverse and do not conform to those stereotyped surface features; the only commonality that manga have ever truly shared across the area are that they are comics from Japan.

These western creations are what I would refer to as "manga influenced", but not manga. Still though, there are many who ardently insist that their works are manga and take offense to the insistence that it is not. Mainly, I think because for some there is an implication of inferiority in the argument against and this happens in the food argument as well. For some reason people won't accept that the influence of one thing, does not make their creation that thing itself. For others like myself and many here there is no implication of superiority intended, however, it is perceived by many to be there.

As I said, not making an argument for Tex-Mex as a part of mexican cuisine at all, much as I would not make the argument that western comics influenced by manga are manga. I'm merely interested in observing and exploring the effect of cultural exchange and classifications, particularly as it relates to nationality and borders.
no avatar
User

Ron Johnson

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1716

Joined

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:48 am

by Ron Johnson » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:54 pm

Ok.

Tex-Mex is not a type of Mexican cuisine. It is a type of Texas cuisine.

It does not originate from Spanish cuisine. It is very well-defined.
no avatar
User

Aaron Newton

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

510

Joined

Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:34 pm

by Aaron Newton » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:28 pm

Not entirely sure what to take from that response, since none of it is in opposition to anything I said... on the other hand it doesn't have the sound of agreement either.
no avatar
User

Will Gaines

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

113

Joined

Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:32 am

Location

Louisville

Authentic Mexican

by Will Gaines » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:35 pm

Another thing many people fail to realize is that Mexico is a big place, and "authentic" food differs depending on the region. Food in Chihuahua is noticeably different from food in the Yucatan. I haven't been to the Mayan Cafe yet, but the Mayan Gypsy was a great example of authentic southern Mexican food.
no avatar
User

Ethan Ray

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

705

Joined

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:30 pm

by Ethan Ray » Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:21 am

would it be fair to make a comparative reference to the offerings at most Chinese restaurants, versus those that serve an 'authentic' menu?


it seems like a similar correlation with Tex-Mex vs. Mexican cuisine.
Ethan Ray

I put vegetables in your desserts, white chocolate with your fish and other nonsense stuff that you think shouldn't make sense, but coax the nonsense into something that makes complete sense in your mouth. Just open your mind, mouth and eat.
no avatar
User

Ron Johnson

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1716

Joined

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:48 am

by Ron Johnson » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:06 am

I suppose that it is vaguely analogous, sort of in the same way that "Italian-American" cuisine has also developed in this country. A person from China would not recognize a lot of what we serve as Chinese food, just as a person from Italy would not recognize a lot of what is passed as Italian.

The only difference I see with Tex-Mex is that it originated from a very specific region and uses specific ingredients. It is what it is by the very fact it was a mixing of the foods of northern Mexico with the foods of the American south, especially texas.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AmazonBot 2, Claudebot and 7 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign